From: email@example.com [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org]On
Behalf Of Kamilla Ludwig
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 7:33 AM
I seriously doubt I can "prove" the case against homosexuality to someone
who has already accepted the pro-homosexual rhetoric (whether out of
"Christian love" or not) and I won't even bother to try with those who
characterize the blindingly obvious as an argument that is "weak to
nonexistent". Nevertheless, the following sources provide a good basis
for those interested in learning more about homosexuality, the homosexual
lobby and the devastating physical and social consequences of accepting
their demand to be embraced and celebrated.
I I don't know anything about such characterizations. Do you have
Your state's Public Health Department and Bureau of Vital Statistics
should be able to provide you with the statistics regarding the relative
life expectancies of homosexual men and the general male population.
They should also be able to provide you with statistics about the greater
incidence of mental illness, suicide, domestic violence, drug and alcohol
abuse in the homosexual population.
There was stuff on my state's public health site about AIDS. Nothing
specifically about gays. Do you have any references? Moreover, I Googled
some sites, but found nothing specifically about gays from objective sources
Apparently, there is not much out there, except a huge amount of anti and
progay propaganda. But I did see evidence that gays were highly likely to be
the victim of hate crimes
2 volumes edited by Christopher Wolfe
"Homosexuality and American Public Life" and "Same Sex Matters"
(In the second volume, Chapter 13, by Rabbi Barry Freundel Chapter 14 by
Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz both give a better explanation of how to love
the sinner while hating the sin than I have ever seen come from any
"Straight and Narrow?"
(Particularly pp. 116-122 on the health affects of sodomy, however it is
defined. The book gives ample notes to original sources)
"Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth"
(especially Chapter 10: The Unnatural Natural)
"Welcoming But not Affirming"
(the best Evangelical source on the subject I've found)
And a few Scriptures:
Genesis 2:18-24 ( we were designed to fit together as male and female)
P Shuan wrote:
Correct, male and female were designed to fit together, but what about the
situation where people may be genetically unable to do so. You don't KNOW
that this is not the case. If you do, lets see some references
Genesis 19:4-8 (if we are to believe the revisionist account that the sin
of Sodom was inhospitality, we must also accept some rather spectacular
gymnastics with the verb "to know" changing meaning between verse 5 and
The only thing this passage teaches me is that if I am
attacked by men bent
on raping me, I should have a virgin daughter available to give them! I
don't think this is what you have in mind
Romans 1:21-27 (God allows perversion to breed further perversion)
I Corinthians 6:9-10 and I Timothy 1:10 (both passages refer to
"arsenokoitai", literally meaning "men who bed men"
Paul clearly thinks homosexuality is wrong. He also thinks it
for men to wear long hair, and for women to be in churches with their heads
uncovered.(I Cor 11:1-16).
He does not oppose the institution of slavery( I Cor 7:20-24), clearly
advocates speaking in tongues and prophecy as a norm ( I Cor 12) and
opposes revolution against the government( Rom 13 :1-5). It is fair to say
that Paul has a number of ideas about right and wrong that would be
different from the average Christian today. its not clear to me that some
of Paul's positions are not culturally conditioned. One of them is arguably
his blanket condemnation of homosexuality. note that no other NT writer
appears to single out homosexuality, although all condemn sexual immorality
And, just for you Shuan, Galatians 3:23-25 (I think you can figure that
one out on your own)
S Shuan wrote:
I can also figure out Gal 3:26-28, where we are told (1) that we are no
longer under that Law that you love so much, and (2) that there is no longer
any male nor female in Christ!
Thanks for pointing that passage out to me!
I'm not going to spend anymore time defending the obvious. When people
who identify themselves as gay or lesbian embrace this identity they
have made a choice to act on desires that are, by definition, disordered.
The sexual activity they embrace is inherently dangerous and unhealthy.
All this may be obvious, but you haven't provided a single reference to show
this. On this listserv, we like references to evidence, not repeated bald
assertions. Anyone can make bald assertions. I can assert that anyone with a
German name is by nature anti-Semitic, or has a secret desire to rule the
world, but without evidence , that would simply be an unfair accusation-kind
of like ones that you insist on throwing around.
It is contrary to the telos, design, end and purpose of the human being
to engage in sexual intimacy with a person of the same sex.
Now how on earth do you know the telos, design, end and
purpose of every
Do you know something the rest of us don't?
started us off on that road by giving us one passage of Scripture. Human
beings were designed as male and female to come together as one flesh.
There is a long list of people I know who did not fulfill that design,
starting with Jesus and St. Paul. Guess they were failures.
If that is something I must "prove", I have to admit I cannot. I cannot
prove it anymore than I can prove that God exists. If that is a weakness
on my part, then I celebrate that weakness!
I Corinthians 10:13, II Corinthians 12:7-10,
More pointless hand waving. you have only celebrated your
closemindedness.Here's a Scripture for you. I John 4:7-8
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