Re: Is there a gay gene?

From: Kamilla Ludwig (
Date: Wed May 15 2002 - 02:02:14 EDT

  • Next message: Kamilla Ludwig: "Re: What is "natural" anyway?"

    > Shuan wrote:
    > Apparently, there a very few "cures" in this situation and most of
    > the
    > "cures" relapse.

    The appearance may be due more to your limited experience than to
    > Nevertheless, being
    > agents with free will we do have the capacity to choose whether or
    > not to
    > act on those desires. I am not gay, I am a heterosexual woman with
    > a
    > strong sex drive
    > Shuan Wrote:
    > Stop right there. Its really easy for a heterosexual to tell a gay
    > person
    > "Stop being gay". consider the reverse. If someone told you , :"stop
    > liking
    > men. From now on , you should be sexually attracted only to women,"
    > do you
    > think that you could do that?

    No, nor would I if I could because it would be sinful. I don't think I
    ever told anyone simply to "stop being gay". I made a clear distinction
    between desire and action in the above.

    > but I can choose to remain celibate because I have free
    > will but also because I rely on the Paraclete's help.
    > Shuan wrote:
    > There are many who have even gone the Focus on the Family wrote,
    > have
    > tried-and have relapsed. Did they lack the Spirit then?

    More likely they ignored the Spirit's promptings.
    > Personal experience is never the rule to rely on when deciding
    > something
    > is sinful
    > or not.
    > Shuan wrote:
    > agreed , but The problem is that the Torah, the fount of the
    > Biblical
    > proscriptions about homosexuality, has a number of commandments
    > about
    > various things that would make your hair crawl. Do you wear blended
    > fabrics?
    > Eat pork? shellfish? All these things are prohibited by the
    > Torah.According
    > to the Torah, a menstruating woman is unclean and everything she
    > touches is
    > unxclean. She must stay sequestered for seven days. Do you buy
    > that?

    Oh, I get it. We're arguing from Jewish law. Never mind the injunctions
    in the New Testament!

    > I do know a variety of gay persons. Those who struggle with their
    > desires and those who cerebrate them. Some of these people I have
    > known
    > for years. Knowing sinful people who struggle with sinful desires
    > doesn't change the clear injunction of God's word in both the Old
    > AND New
    > Testaments. God doesn't tell us to embrace sin because we can't
    > cure
    > ourselves. But it does impel us to stand in solidarity with those
    > who
    > struggle against sin and point to the truth for those who celebrate
    > their
    > sin for we know that we are all, without exception sinful and
    > fallen
    > people.
    > Since your brother is a psychiatrist, he surely knows the
    > consequences to
    > his physical health of acting on his homosexual desires. Is that
    > something you really want to embrace on his behalf?
    > Shuan wrote:
    > He himself doesn't particularly want to embrace it. He has found
    > out,
    > though, that his homosexuality is as much a part of his identity as
    > your
    > heterosexuality is a part of yours. For him , to be heterosexual
    > would be
    > like you becoming a lesbian.

    Not quite. Since acting on one identity is inherently sinful and the
    other is not inherently so.

    His coming out has not been easy-for
    > him or for
    > me. But he has decided to stop living a lie, and in Christian love I
    > support
    > him on this. I'll let you have the last word.

    Since you didn't answer my question, I'll take the opportunity of the
    last word to ask it again, rephrased.

    Do you honestly believe that it is in Christian love that you support
    your brother in perpetuating a self-identity which leads to inherently
    sinful and health devastating behaviours? You do your brother no favors
    by exhibiting this sort of "Christian" love.


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