RE: What does a liberal think?

From: Don Perrett (
Date: Sun May 12 2002 - 15:25:09 EDT

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    JB: Then you are opposed to the so-called flag burning amendment?

    Don P: Actually, yes. Although I served in the army for 10+ years, I do
    believe that people have a right to do so as a symbol of protest against
    government policy. I do not agree with it however, but as a matter of law
    people should have the right so long as it is within a peaceful public
    assembly or on personal property.
    JB: I agree, and I think that is current law.

    Don P: If it is law, then why are schools not allowing people to conduct
    prayers before tests, games or grad ceremonies. No one forces those who
    object to listen. but if religion is not allowed then is this not a
    violation of free speech and separation of church and state? It's one thing
    for government to push for a particular religion, which was meant to be
    unconstitutional, and another to not allow any religion.
    JB: What is wrong? I happen to agree that abortion is a bad idea. Yes --
    a "sin," at least in some instances. What I oppose is a LAW to control
    it. I oppose a law because I see a law doing more harm than good. On my
    website are testimonies from six women who were involved in the "real
    thing." Read them.

    Don P: If one considers an unborn child to be a separate life form then is
    it not illegal to murder it? No new laws are needed, just a determination
    that unborn children are alive. If you do not feel that it is and you see it
    as only a part of a women's body, then if I were to choose to have an arm
    cut of because I felt it inconvenient would any doctor do this? Self maiming
    is wrong and murder is wrong, which do you choose? As for you testimonies, I
    am not impressed. I know for more than six women that have had abortions,
    including my sister. She regrets it now, but as a youth and with a bunch of
    atheists pushing her, she made the wrong decision.
    JB: If I am unpacking your claim above, you are accusing PP of certain
    unethical practices. I have no particular knowledge of PP, so on that
    subject I cannot comment, except to note that if that is your claim, it
    needs grounds for belief.

    Don P: You're right, it does need proof. Unfortunately their backers are too
    powerful. Why would any rich family that donates to this cause care about
    the poor people having abortions. Either they like murder or they are trying
    to control. Being tolerant does not mean being blind to reality.

    JB: On immigration -- the average immigrant during the past several years
    had a slightly higher educational level than the general American public
    (in terms of college diplomas).
    Reference: IMMIGRANT AMERICA by Portes and Rumbaut.

    Don P: True, but I am speaking specifically about Latin Americans where the
    education level is lower not higher. But education has nothing to do with
    the discussion. Besides the reason that immigrants tend to have more
    education is because those allowed into the US lately have been those
    brought in by employers, who for obvious reasons hire those with education.

    JB: Your claim is that sexual preference is chosen. I do not think you
    can cite reasonable grounds for this. Of all the gays (male term) and
    lesbians (female term) and trans-gendered people I know, and that is more
    than a few (OK -- only one trans-gendered that I am aware of) none hold
    that their orientation was in any way "chosen." The evidence for genetics
    is large; for environmental is also present, although not as large; the
    evidence for chosen is small. That some may choose it is agreed; that
    more than a small % of all gays & lesbians choose it is hard to defend.

    Don P; Nor can you cite any scientific evidence to support genetics as the
    cause. Just because someone cannot remember being hetero does not mean that
    they were not born so. I suppose everyone remembers when they were one year
    old. and if it is a chemical imbalance, perhaps hormonal, then it should be
    treatable. I don't see any companies looking for a cure, as they do for many
    other genetic/chemical imbalances.

    JB: You say "to my knowledge against God's will." I accept that; it was my
    opinion also -- ten years ago. After study, I came to a different
    position. Study materials on my web site (on both side) are there for
    anyone who wishes to look at them. Also my own position statement.

    Don P: So I am to understand that this is not your position now. That is
    your right. But just as with any other bizarre sex act, God does not
    approve. I guess Sodom was just a vacation spot for God.

    JB: Wow. OK Don. we now have a world population of 6 billion people. As I
    read what you have written you see it "God's will" that this number
    increase until the only room left on earth is for some people to sit on
    standing peoples' laps.

    Don P: First of all, there is plenty of land to support five times what we
    have now. The problem is mismanagement of agricultural land. Perhaps if some
    of the countries in Africa stop waging civil wars they might find time to
    plant some crops. It is the organizations that are selfish and hate life
    that chose to believe that we are overpopulated. I don't recall God saying
    to go forth and multiply until we are too many. God will provide, if you
    believe. I hope that your faith is stronger.

    JB: I'm sorry -- I see no logical argument in what you have written.

    It exists. See the Exodus web site. They claim some successes. There may
    be some who can be changed through rehab. Apparently, however, such as
    these are a small minority.

    Don P: It does exist. I am aware. Just like any other chosen misdoing, such
    as drugs, the individual must be willing to change.

    JB: Yes. One of the great diseases hitting mostly heterosexual folks. The
    sin here is promiscuity, both homosexual and heterosexual. Which is, I
    assert, proscribed by scripture.

    Don P: Initially the spread was due to mostly homosexuality and intravenous
    drug use. since most have either realized that using condoms is the safest
    thing and clean needles and condoms are being handed out it would of course
    decline. Heteros tend to be in a denial, thinking that only gays and drug
    users can get it. They therefore are less safe in their sex. But as you said
    promiscuity is the biggest factor. And this of course is also against God's
    JB: "Belief IN salvation?" I don't grek that. And you read into my
    statement much more than I wish to imply.

    Don P: I apologize.
    JB: Tolerance is better than hate. Acceptance is better than tolerance.
    is, as far as I can see, a false hope for persons with a homosexual
    affinity. AT least most of them.

    Don P: Some would say that going door to door is a waste of time if you are
    trying to save a soul but people still do it. One saved is still one saved.
    Tolerance and forgiveness is an absolute, but to look the other way on sin
    and not say something to the one sinning is also a sin. We do not have to
    hate or condemn in order to say it is wrong. Where is love when you watch
    your child doing wrong and say nothing?

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