John wrote: Free speech(as being important)
Don P: Absolutely
JB: Then you are opposed to the so-called flag burning amendment?
John: Religion free from government interference, either positive or
Don P: Which also means that if someone wants to pray or conduct
activities in school, they should be able to do so. This does not mean
everyone should be required however.
JB: I agree, and I think that is current law.
John: Against any law that inserts a grim faced man in a blue suit with
large gun into a doctor's office. In other words, pro-choice -- but NOT
Don P: People that are pro-abortion do have rights just as all do. For
the law says that a woman can have an abortion. So we must follow the
But if one believes that God intended for people to do so, then this is
JB: What is wrong? I happen to agree that abortion is a bad idea. Yes --
a "sin," at least in some instances. What I oppose is a LAW to control
it. I oppose a law because I see a law doing more harm than good. On my
website are testimonies from six women who were involved in the "real
thing." Read them.
Don P. Concerning race, why do you think
that the black population has not grown at the same level as whites and
particularly Latin-Americans. Of course, most will say that it is due to
immigration. Partly, but Planned Parenthood has pushed the abortion issue
the point and for the purpose of controlling, or limiting, the number of
births to lower income people. This of course has a great effect on
Not so much with Latin-Americans, due to catholic beliefs. It is not
necessarily a race issue, but the rich do not want more poor babies that
they must support with taxes and that will be a burden to the economy and
thus their own pockets.
JB: If I am unpacking your claim above, you are accusing PP of certain
unethical practices. I have no particular knowledge of PP, so on that
subject I cannot comment, except to note that if that is your claim, it
needs grounds for belief.
On immigration -- the average immigrant during the past several years has
had a slightly higher educational level than the general American public
(in terms of college diplomas).
Reference: IMMIGRANT AMERICA by Portes and Rumbaut.
John: Anti-racist in a wide meaning of that term. See all humanity as
People of color have equal standing
Women have equal standing
People with different sexual preferences have equal standing
See diversity as a "good thing."
Don P: You are correct. Everyone is and should be equal, regardless of
they were born. Color is not chosen, nor is gender. Sexual preference
however is chosen, and to my knowledge against God's will.
JB: Your claim is that sexual preference is chosen. I do not think you
can cite reasonable grounds for this. Of all the gays (male term) and
lesbians (female term) and trans-gendered people I know, and that is more
than a few (OK -- only one trans-gendered that I am aware of) none hold
that their orientation was in any way "chosen." The evidence for genetics
is large; for environmental is also present, although not as large; the
evidence for chosen is small. That some may choose it is agreed; that
more than a small % of all gays & lesbians choose it is hard to defend.
You say "to my knowledge against God's will." I accept that; it was my
opinion also -- ten years ago. After study, I came to a different
position. Study materials on my web site (on both side) are there for
anyone who wishes to look at them. Also my own position statement.
Don P. Anyone that chooses for personal gain, or reasons, not to
propagate is wrong. This was our main function given by God. To chose not
to have children for medical, or religious reasons, is one thing. But,
because one prefers same sex, that is
not beneficial to the human race. This is not just religious, but
logic. Wondering why we are going to have a short fall of people to pay
social security. Baby Boom? Not solely. Abortion and same sex have
the birth rates necessary to replenish and grow. If everyone chose to
abortions and same sex then we would be committing self genocide. Where's
the logic in that?"
Wow. OK Don. we now have a world population of 6 billion people. As I
read what you have written you see it "God's will" that this number
increase until the only room left on earth is for some people to sit on
standing peoples' laps.
I'm sorry -- I see no logical argument in what you have written.
Don P. "Do we not provide rehab for drug users and phys rehab for
handicaps. Why not for homosexuals?
It exists. See the Exodus web site. They claim some successes. There may
be some who can be changed through rehab. Apparently, however, such as
these are a small minority.
Don P. " How can anyone say that homosexuality is not harming others.
Heard of AIDS? "
JB: Yes. One of the great diseases hitting mostly heterosexual folks. The
sin here is promiscuity, both homosexual and heterosexual. Which is, I
assert, proscribed by scripture.
John: Honor those of a different religious persuasion.
Honor those with no religious persuasion.
See Christianity as primarily a confessional, not a prescriptive
Don P: Christianity is not prescriptive, but belief in salvation, whether
from Jesus of Nazareth or the one to come, is necessary. Even Jews and
Muslims believe in salvation, although perhaps not Jesus. If your
is to imply that any religion works, this may be only from a
and perhaps moral point.
JB: "Belief IN salvation?" I don't grek that. And you read into my
statement much more than I wish to imply.
John: Finally, the following good news came to me today from a fellow
> Dallas City Council Approves Anti-Discrimination Ordinance
> The Associated Press, May 8, 2002
> The Rev. Flip Benham, director of the Dallas-based anti-abortion group
> Operation Save America, spoke against the measure.
> "It's a travesty that breaks my heart," he said. "The city hall has
> declared itself as God. It's a direct attack on the word of God."
This person sees no attack on the word of God. Except, perhaps, by Flip
Don P: To discriminate would be wrong, but as I said, we must help them
the way for their own sake as well as society's. Just as it benefits
everyone to rehab a drug user. Tolerance, coupled with prayer and rehab.
Tolerance is better than hate. Acceptance is better than tolerance. Rehab
is, as far as I can see, a false hope for persons with a homosexual
affinity. AT least most of them.
Thank you for the comments.
John Burgeson (Burgy)
(science/theology, quantum mechanics, baseball, ethics,
humor, cars, philosophy and much more)
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