RE: Another thing people can throw rocks at

From: JW Burgeson (
Date: Sat May 11 2002 - 16:48:29 EDT

  • Next message: John W Burgeson: "Re: What does a liberal think?"

    Glenn wrote: " I would merely ask here, how you used the scientific method
    to determine that a non-historical poem is theologically true? I don't
    really think that is possible--i.e. to use science or a scientific mindset
    to determine theological truth. Could you explain how this is done?"

    I do not think it is possible either, my friend. As george puts it -- start
    with the cross. My conviction that Jesus is the Christ comes from the HS
    working on me (after I asked). All else flows from that.

    "why I can't go with the more liberal approach to the Scripture. It would
    mean doing what I did as a YEC--using science from Monday to Friday and
    avoiding science and a common methodology on the weekends and after work. I
    don't want to go back to that failed methodology, which I think you are
    actually using. :-)"

    Christ is Lord of all -- or He is not Lord at all.

    But in one sense you are quite right. I do not use science (scientific
    techniques and mindset) to apprehend God. That does not work. I see you as
    trying to use the scientific technique to apprehend God -- this is probably
    what I meant when I said you had the "YEC mindset." ANd I think that
    technique is doomed to failure. Apprehending God is much more mystical.
    William James seems to have a good handle on this in his 1902 lectures later

    Apprehending God is not the only human activity that cannot (or should not)
    be approached with a scientific mindset. Marriage is one that comes to mind.
    An artist painting a sunset. The courtship of a man and a woman. The
    nurturing of a baby by its mother. Listening to Handel's Messiah. Etc etc.

    "I think you miss my point. The theology of salvation to which I refer does
    not consist of the set of Christian theologies. Don't limit the
    possibilities to merely those within Christianity. I refer to the set of all
    religious theologies. If Molech is truly God, then I may be in trouble
    because I didn't sacrifice my son, Daniel, to him when Dan was a baby. It is
    29 years too late for me."

    yes, I miised your point. I see the above as totally irrelevant.

    "And if you will dig back in your memory banks you will know that I don't
    care if every detail is accurate. What I insist upon is that the story be
    essentially true--not a made up just so story."

    One always wonders how many points of correspondence might satisfy you.
    Suppose we find -- say -- three points of correspondence. Will that be
    enough? What do you say to a person who says three are insufficient -- he
    needs four? And on and on.

    "The first message does have a lot to do with history and science. The
    universe came into being either as a result of eternally existing natural
    forces alone or as the result of eternally existing divine will."

    Or maybe both.

    " By universe I mean all that there is. If God came into being with the
    universe, then he is part of the Universe and not the creator of it."

    But who here (or anywhere) is arguing that? Nobody that I know. Not even the
    Process Theologians.


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