Re: 2900 BC vs. 2350 BC

From: Dick Fischer (
Date: Wed May 01 2002 - 22:02:35 EDT

  • Next message: Dr. Blake Nelson: "Re: the Black Sea Flood"

    Mike wrote:

    >Paul wrote: The Flood of Gilgamesh, and probably of the Bible, is dated by
    >Near Eastern archaeologists at c. 2900 BC. See Dick Fischer's book or Carol
    >Hill's article "A Time and Place for Noah" Perspectives March, 2001. The
    >primary paper is Max Mallowan, "Noah's Flood Reconsidered," Iraq 26 (1964).
    >I'm aware of this. I think they are wrong. I'll bet on the 2350 BC tree ring
    >study date/ Bible chronology date.

    I do wish others would see these errors and offer comment. I hate to
    be the one who has to jump in and argue with Mike, especially when we
    agree about many of the basics. So I reluctantly submit this.

    First of all, you have only two data points. A possible meteor
    impact dated at 2350 BC, and the flood date from the Masoretic text
    which itself varies from the Septuagint (3128 BC).

    You would have a better case projecting a flood at about 3150 BC in
    agreement with the Septuagint, at least you would have more data.

    1. Greenland Dye 3 oxygen isotope ratio. Minimum value between 2000
    and 8000 cal yrs BP occurs just before 5.0K yrs BP. Data from
    National Snow and Ice Data Center. A large acid peak at 3150 BC is
    suggestive of a volcanic event. Fisher et al, The Holocene 5, 1, 19,

    2. Data from Belfast 7272 year oak tree ring chronology; (f) is an
    index of the tree ring narrowness corresponding to cold weather and
    following growth disturbance in bogs due possibly to flooding with
    some peaks correlatable to volcanic activity; (g) represents relative
    availability of oak samples in Northern Ireland. The peak in (g) at
    about 3150 BC followed by the maximum tree and site sample
    representation suggest a major climatic event at this time. Baillie,
    MGL and Munro, MAR, Nature, 332 345 (1988).Similar sudden increase in
    swamp oak (mooreichen, still used to make furniture in Germany) shows
    up at 5100 BP on the Danube. Becher and Schirmer, Boreas, d) GISP2
    100-year smoothed oxygen isotope ratio; Meese, D.A> et al Science,
    266, 680, (1994) 6, 300 (1977).

    3. Sulfate in GISP2 ice core; curve is a low-tension robust spline
    of sulfate concentrations with average about 30 ppb. The cause of the
    150 year peak at 5.2K yrs BP is not known, but the authors suggest
    the possibility of an anomalous nearby temporary body of open water
    (polynya) which generated marine biogenic sulfate. Zielinski, GA et
    al, Nature, 264 948 (1994).

    4. Atmospheric methane from GRIP ice core with lowest value 580 ppbv
    at 5.2K yrs. BP followed by rapid increase of 40 ppbv over 200 years;
    variously attributed to clathrate or permafrost outgassing, decrease
    in tropospheric oxidation, or abrupt increase in low-latitude
    wetlands. Blunier, T, et al, Nature, 374 47 (1995).

    5. Dead Sea levels peaking at 300 ft. above present levels at 5.0 and
    8.0K gv BP. Frumkin et al, The Holocene, 1 3 191-200 (1991). For
    further discussions of North African lake behavior and possible
    relation of century-scale Holocene arid intervals and cooler sea
    temperatures in the North Atlantic see Lamb, H F et al, Nature, 373
    134 (1995).

    But what you have totally ignored is the history of Mesopotamia which
    has been carefully assembled from numerous archaeological
    expeditions. The Early Dynastic Period from 2900 to 2370 BC has been
    agreed upon by numerous writers based upon independent field work at
    many sites all over the region. The entire period breaks down into
    three sub periods:

             Early Dynastic I - 2900 to 2750 BC
             Early Dynastic II - 2750 to 2600 BC
             Early Dynastic III - 2600 to 2370 BC

    Each of these periods is filled with history, all of which had to
    occur after the flood. So you don't just disagree with Carol and I.
    You disagree with a boatload of professional archaeologists.

    Yours in Christ,

    Dick Fischer - The Origins Solution -
    "The answer we should have known about 150 years ago"

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