[Fwd: RE: [Fwd: RE: [Fwd: RE: [Fwd: RE: Darwinism/Compassion]]]]

From: Lucy Masters (masters@cox-internet.com)
Date: Mon Feb 25 2002 - 14:20:34 EST

  • Next message: D. F. Siemens, Jr.: "Re: [Fwd: RE: [Fwd: RE: [Fwd: RE: Darwinism/Compassion]]]"


    See my earlier post to Jan regarding the basis for moral decisions.
     Inasmuch as the NT disputes the OT, I don't think one must accept the
    Bible as the only moral authority. I think I **do** use it as a
    guidebook - but not as a book of laws. So how does that work in daily
    life? An example...we have a young woman who received food and housing
    from our organization (a Christian organization - or at least we think
    we are). She spoke no English, so we had a Bilingual person come in to
    help her. She came to us with a small child. So we set some guidelines
    for her. If she wanted to stay in this country, she had to agree to
    study English with the tutor we arranged for her who COMES TO THE HOUSE
    WE GIVE HER so she doesn't have to leave her child. She has to refrain
    from using alcohol or drugs on our property, and she cannot, absolutely
    cannot, engage in sexual relations with anyone unless she becomes
    married to that person. She must agree to take her child to the clinic
    for medical care, which we pay for and drive her to. She must agree
    upon mastering enough English to do so to take some kind of compensable
    employment which we will help her find and during which we will provide
    free day care.

    We gave her one year to "get her act together."

    What did she do? She moved into the house and accepted all the free
    food and clothing. We also paid her utility bills. She refused to work
    with the tutor, and also would not let the tutor teach her child
    English. She "disappeared" when we arrived to take her child to the
    clinic. We began to find empty bottles of alcohol and drug
    paraphernalia about the house (also a terrifying legal concern for us).
     We found out too late that she was allowing a married man to come to
    our house to engage in sexual behavior with her, and that she was
    pregnant. Nine months later she gave birth to twins. After three
    months, we told her she would need to move out of our care, find someone
    else to care for her, or perhaps move back to Mexico.

    Hard? Cold? UnChristian? Call it what you will, but that house, that
    food, that clothing, can be used for another person who WILL work with
    us to become independent of us. The greatest gift we can give is not
    the food or the house or the clothes. It is the ability to get one's
    life together and to no longer need our help.

    So I would say that the "Christian in me" says we should help people to
    survive *for a while* and we should help them to become *fit* for a
    while. But they must also participate. The only reason I can think of
    for not "cutting off the aid" is if the person is so sick or disabled
    that they cannot care for themselves.

    BTW - it may or may not interest you to know that I am married to a
    person who was born totally and permanently disabled. If everything had
    been handed to him, I'm quite certain he would be a bloated slug today
    parked in front of a television set in a day room. Instead, his mother
    and I both pushed and prodded him all the way through his Ph.D. in
    clinical psychology. He has maintained his own private practice for
    over 20 years, drives a little, red Mustang GT, and is extremely
    independent. I don't think he regrets it. (Although I did tell him
    last night that some members of this list think I'm a demon, and he did
    laugh and say, "Gee! And just from reading your little emails? If they
    ever met you in person, they'd run screaming into the night!").

    Lucy (Lucifer?)

    -------- Original Message --------
    Subject: RE: [Fwd: RE: [Fwd: RE: [Fwd: RE: Darwinism/Compassion]]]
    Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:30:22 -0800
    From: Adrian Teo <ateo@whitworth.edu>
    To: 'Lucy Masters' <masters@cox-internet.com>, asa@calvin.edu



    I have to be very careful here so as not to be misunderstood. What I
    find inconsistent is your apparent reluctance to apply the bible as a
    guide for moral decisions, and yet at the same time arguing that your
    view is not unChristian, and perhaps also implying that it is more
    Christian. I don't mean to imply that you are not a Christian and I have
    no reason to doubt that you are, but I do think that there is a
    fundamental inconsistency in your thought process. Both Christian
    tradition and Scriptures are agreed on the evil of human death and the
    necessity to protect the weakest among us, but you deny both. Perhaps
    one could make a case as you do, that the notion of the sanctity of life
    cannot be derive solely from the Bible, but the major councils of
    Christianity have always taught that, or at least, have never denied
    that life is an absolutely precious gift from God. Sure, Christians
    historically have acted in ways contrary to this understanding, but then
    Christians are susceptible to sin just like any one else. I am not a
    biblical literalist as well, but neither do I reject the authority of
    the bible.


    Perhaps you wish to enlighten all of us about your basis for making
    moral decisions?





        -----Original Message-----
        From: Lucy Masters [mailto:masters@cox-internet.com]
        Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 8:41 AM
        To: asa@calvin.edu
        Subject: [Fwd: RE: [Fwd: RE: [Fwd: RE: Darwinism/Compassion]]]


        I'm not sure what you find incoherent or inconsistent. It is merely
        the application of reason. As far as morals are concerned, the
        Bible is absolutely scandalous. I'm not sure how you derive a
        morality of "life over death" by reading the Bible. ??? Thank
        heavens I'm not a biblical literalist, or I'd be endorsing the
        slaughtering of babes for tribal purposes.



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