Re: How to discuss evolution with friends. WAs RE: YEC and loss of faith:

From: Moorad Alexanian (
Date: Tue Feb 12 2002 - 11:36:50 EST

  • Next message: Walter Hicks: "Re: How to discuss evolution with friends. WAs RE: YEC and loss of faith:"

    If you want to give a dollar to someone who has a dime in his/her hand,
    please do not take the dime away from them. Just as we witness our
    Christian faith to others but let the Holy Spirit convict them at their
    proper time, then we must not try to say to YEC that they are absolutely
    wrong but educate them in the indisputable findings of science. [What is
    indisputable findings? Is the Big Bang an indisputable fact?] I, for one,
    would not say that YEC is a totally illogical position. One really does not
    know how God brought the whole thing into existence. I know some will
    indicate that if YEC is true then God is deceiving or misleading us in the
    process of doing our science. That is a problem for God to figure out not
    me. I do realize the importance of having our Christian youth know enough
    science so that when they go to high school or college they are not shocked
    and become easy pray for scientism or materialism.


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Shuan Rose" <>
    To: "george murphy" <>; "Walter Hicks"
    Cc: "Ted Davis" <>; <>; <>
    Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 11:10 AM
    Subject: How to discuss evolution with friends. WAs RE: YEC and loss of

    > Hullo List,
    > In my opinion, the constant proprogation of YEC views as THE only true
    > interpretation of Genesis can lead to a loss of faith, as it almost did in
    > my life when I confronted the evidence for evolution. Evolution may not be
    > the perfect scientific explanation for the diversity and elaboration of
    > life, but it is better than OEC and incomparably better than YEC, which
    > been completely falsified scientifically.
    > The next question for me is how I explain this to my YEC friends. I go to
    > conservative evangelical church, and most folk there appear to be YEC. In
    > fact, the church puts out a tract attacking evolution as ungodly. When I
    > mentioned that I beleived in evolution, I was challenged on this. One of
    > friends even wants the church to bring Answers in Genesis(GROAN) to town
    > an evolution/creation debate!
    > My position is not helped by Dawkins & Provine, with their proof of
    > evolution = atheism formulas.
    > Its enough to make you wish for the simple life of an atheist!
    > Seriously though, I would like some guidance on how to deal with evolution
    > when the topic comes up with my YEC friends.
    > regards,
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: []On
    > Behalf Of george murphy
    > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 7:48 AM
    > To: Walter Hicks
    > Cc: Ted Davis;;
    > Subject: Re: YEC and loss of faith
    > Walter Hicks wrote:
    > > george murphy wrote:
    > ...................................
    > > > & finally, my point stands that there is no good argument for
    > YEC beyond that
    > > > based on its dubious assumptions about the character of biblical
    > narratives.
    > >
    > > I once heard a viewpoint that says that God created the Universe with
    > > man in mind. In fact: that by the Gospel of John this is conveyed very
    > > clearly. If then the universe is created for man, is it so obvious that
    > > God would have it do 20 billion years of preparation for the coming of
    > > historical mankind. If that "history" is what is needed for the backdrop
    > > to mankind, then so be it. Do you think that God could not just as
    > > easily start the clock ticking some 10,000 years ago? Yeah, I know that
    > > you probably hate the "history built in" argument. Do I perhaps see an
    > > a-priori bias for "naturalism" that refuses to even consider anything
    > > else?
    > >
    > > I don't subscribe to YEC, but I think the arguments generally presented
    > > here don't hold overwhelming weight.
    > I don't think a full-blown evolutionary view of the world is a
    > dunk from the
    > standpoint of either science or theology. There are a number of things
    > current
    > evolutionary theory hasn't explained well (in particular, the origin of
    > life), and there is
    > some latitude in biblical interpretation. I can understand how informed &
    > sensible people
    > can hold varieties of PC or OEC, though I think they're wrong in
    > ways. But YEC
    > is a quite different matter, & that's what we're talking about. It is
    > scientifically
    > worthless & theologically unnecessary.
    > God didn't create the universe simply with humanity in mind but
    > humanity indwelt by
    > God - i.e., for the Incarnation. See Eph.1:10 and Col.1:15-20. This
    > requires that there
    > be an intelligent species for the Logos to enperson. & if God acts to
    > about such a
    > species in the world through natural processes - so that it's possible for
    > that species to
    > understand the world on its own terms - then that species will arrive via
    > evolution. That
    > takes a long time - & all the anthropic "coincidences" then become of
    > theological
    > interest. But the whole idea is not simply an anthropic but a
    > _the_anthropic principle.
    > I'll be glad to send to anyone who's interested my article "The
    > as a
    > Theanthropic Principle" which was published in _Word & World_ a few years
    > ago.
    > Shalom,
    > George
    > George L. Murphy
    > "The Science-Theology Interface"

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