Re: Fountains of the great deep (was Glenn makes front page of AiG today)

From: Allen Roy (
Date: Sat Feb 09 2002 - 01:11:00 EST

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    > << The Oceans basins are the fountains of the great deep. These basins
    > broken up by asteroid impacts, initiating sinking of the dense oceanic
    > into the Athenesphere. >>
    > Only by taking the "fountains of the great deep" out of their historical
    > biblical context could they be considered "ocean basins."

    I have taken it within the Biblical context. The Historical context might
    be able to offer ambiance and flavor or contrast, but it certainly cannot
    not give the Biblical context. One of the major falshoods promoted among
    Biblical scholars is that monotheism grew out of polytheism, that Biblical
    ideas and theology must have developed from the surrounding cultures.
    Rather, the other religions developed as perversions of the true worship of
    God when men rejected God. The Bible tells us the true religion and the
    truth about origins.

    > Biblical scholars
    > with the requisite training in languages and ancient Near Eastern studies
    > universally agree

    It would not be the first time that "Biblical Scholars" were universally

    > that the fountains are TERRESTRIAL fountains drawing their
    > water from the SUBTERRANEAN ocean which the Bible and other ancient Near
    > Eastern literature understood to be beneath the earth (Pss 24:2; 136:6).

    It is certain that ancient Near Eastern literature is full of crazy ideas,
    but it does not logically follow that the believers of God held the same
    ideas. If we follow that thinking then we would have to conclude that God
    required human sacrifice to appease himself and satisfy his lust for blood,
    just like the pagan cultures within which God's people lived. If you are
    going to argue one, you must argue both.

    > Gordon Wenham, Genesis 1-15, p. 181 "All the springs…suggesting water
    > forth uncontrollably from wells and springs which draw from a great
    > subterrranean ocean ("the great deep")…"

    Just one mans opinion.

    > Bruce Waltke, Genesis, p. 139 "The earth is being returned to its
    > chaos by the release of the previously bounded waters above and by the
    > upsurge of the subterrannean waters (See 1:2, 6-9, 8:2)."

    more of the same.

    > Gerhard Hasel, "The Fountains of the Great Deep," Origins 1(2):67-72
    > In Psalm 74:15 one reads "Thou didst break open (baqac) springs and
    > torrents." According to the context this seems to mean that God split open
    > the earth so that waters could come forth which could feed the springs of
    > rivers. In Exodus 14:16 Moses stretched forth his hand over the sea and
    > divided (baqac) it. The idea is a splitting apart of the waters. According
    > Judges 15:19 God "split open" (baqac) the hollow place and water came from
    > it. In Isaiah 48:21 it is stated that He "cleft" (baqac) the rock and
    > gushed out. In these verses the same verb appears as in Genesis 7:11 and
    > consistently the meaning of bursting forth, dividing, cleaving, splitting
    > open. On the basis of these and other passages , it appears safe to
    > that in Genesis 7:11 the meaning of "burst forth" refers to a breaking
    > of the crust of the earth to let subterranean waters pour out in unusual
    > quantity. Accordingly the whole clause "all the fountains of the great
    > burst forth" may be taken to refer to the fountains, which in normal times
    > furnished sufficient water for the needs of men and animals and the
    > irrigation of the fields. At the beginning of the flood these fountains
    > open and poured out such terrific quantities of water which together with
    > water raining down from the heavens brought about the flood which
    > all life on earth.

    Hasels problem is that he first should identify what the Bible means by
    "great deep" and "fountains." Once that is done, the meaning of Baqac is no
    big thing. Hasel ignored or missed the Biblical context which identifies
    "Mayan" with the reservoir basins at Nephtoah (Joshua 15:9). The break up
    of a reservoir basin will result in water bursting forth from the reservoir.
    In Genesis 7:11, it is the reservoirs of the great deep, the basins on the
    crust holding the oceans which gets broken up. The oceans would surge
    (burst forth) out of the broken-up ocean basins and flood the dry land.

    > I also have dealt with these fountains in my paper, "The Geographical
    > of "Earth" and "Seas" in Genesis 1:10," Westminster Theological Journal 59
    > (1997) 231-55. To cite just a small part of that discussion,
    > Prov 3:20, another verse that pairs water from above (in the form of dew)
    > with water from below, parallels Gen 7:11's reference to the water from
    > below grammatically for it uses the same verb ( baqa' ) to speak of
    > open the springs as was used in Gen 7:11. In addition, the springs in
    > 3:20 are called tehomot which parallels the description of springs in Gen
    > 7:11 where they are called "springs of the great tehom." The springs of
    > 3:20 are thus identified with the springs of Gen 7:11. Since the springs
    > mentioned in Prov 3:20 are in a context of agricultural blessing (paired
    > "dew"), they must be earthly fresh-water springs. Prov 3:20 thus shows us
    > that the springs of Gen 7:11 are also earthly fresh-water springs and
    > reciprocally Gen 7:11 shows us that the fresh-water springs (tehomot) of
    > 3:20 were fed by the great tehom (sea) of Gen 7:11. The grammar, the
    > historical context, and the fact that the pairing of water from above with
    > water from below regularly refers the water from below to the sea beneath
    > earth, makes this interpretation sure. Scott, therefore, correctly
    > on Prov 3:20:

    It can just a easily be understood this way:
    Prov. 3:19-20 NIV
    A. By wisdom the LORD laid the earth's foundations, (the land)
        B. by understanding he set the heavens in place; (the sky)
    A'. by his knowledge the deeps were divided, (on the land)
        B'. and the clouds let drop the dew. (in the

    This is a simplified version of part of the Creation Week.
    A. Gen 1:9. "...let dry ground appear.", 10. "God called the dry ground
    "land," "
        B. Gen 1:6. "Let there be an expanse ...", 8. "God called the expanse
    "sky." "
    A'. Gen 1:9. "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place...",
    10. "and the gathered waters he called "seas." "
        B' Gen 2:6 but {streams} (a mist KJV) came up from the earth and watered
    the whole surface of the ground"

    The "Baqa" (splitting or dividing) of the "Tehomot" (deep) [Pr. 3:20] is
    simply the gathering of the waters which had covered the whole earth into
    divided basins (seas) on the crust of the earth.

    The writer of Proverbs 3:19-20 states his knowledge that the deep sits on
    land, which is emperically verified by simply wading in any lake, river,
    sea, or ocean.

    In Pr. 3:20, the deep is "split/divided."
    In Gen. 7:11, the fountains are "broken up", not the deep.
    These two texts are talking about two different things. So, it is not valid
    to make the comparisons between them that you have made.

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