Re: Do animals ever "sin" (was something else)

From: Graham Morbey (
Date: Mon Feb 04 2002 - 08:59:31 EST

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    As usual, it is good to pay attention to George's take on some of the more
    esoteric issues of our Christian minds. Years ago, preaching to some
    sleepy country farmers at 2:30pm, I extended the cosmic claims of John
    3:16 to include cows. Since I was invited back to that rather conservative
    church, I concluded that either some were more deeply asleep than I feared
    or their calvinistic worldview was not shocked.

    The declaration by God in Genesis that creation was(is) good, suggests to
    me, that even loss of species (however accounted for) may not be be
    forever but that they may be on view again in the renewed heavens and
    earth. There are many present creatures at the bottom of seas and in
    remote places that show forth the handy work of God and that I will never
    see before I die. Such human thoughts are applauded in Scripture.

    With the vision of cosmic shalom in mind,

    On Mon, 4 Feb 2002, george murphy wrote:

    > Bill Payne wrote:
    > > On Sun, 03 Feb 2002 16:14:39 -0500 Walter Hicks
    > > <> writes:
    > >
    > > > That Jesus was the Savior for man has not been brought into doubt by
    > > > ASA mwmbers (so far) ---- but what about the animals? If they really
    > > > have souls (as many think), then can they sin? Do they have a Savior
    > > > also?
    > >
    > > Job 42:10 - ...the Lord ...gave him twice as much as he had before.
    > > Comparing the next few verses with Chapter 1, Job got twice as many
    > > animals but only the same number of children, because his first set of
    > > children was still alive in heaven. The first set of animals was all
    > > dead (no souls, no afterlife), so God gave Job twice as many animals as
    > > before.
    > There is absolutely nothing in this text to suggest that Job's
    > "first set of children was still alive in heaven." That whole way of
    > thinking is alien to the Old Testament. The hints of life after death in
    > the Old Testament (including the textually difficult passage Job 19:25-27)
    > point rather toward resurrection of the body.
    > The Greek idea of immortality of the soul in fact sabatoges
    > Christian belief in the resurrection. If we don't really die but are
    > "still alive in heaven" then the importance of resurrection is minimized -
    > cf. those who "scoffed" at Paul's message of a resurrection in Athens
    > (Acts 17:32).
    > Shalom,
    > George
    > George L. Murphy
    > "The Science-Theology Interface"

    Graham E. Morbey, Chaplain || Wilfrid Laurier University
    tel. 519-884-1970 ext.2739 || Waterloo, Ontario, Canada N2L 3C5
    fax 519-885-4865 ||

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