God acting in creation #4+++

From: Peter Ruest (pruest@pop.mysunrise.ch)
Date: Wed Dec 19 2001 - 11:30:35 EST

  • Next message: george murphy: "Re: Coercion & Persuasion (Was Re: God acting in creation #4+++"

    george murphy wrote:
    >
    > bivalve wrote:
    >
    > > > Like the other physicists here, I simply don't see how the
    > > possibility for new types of organization to be introduced without
    > > there being corresponding changes in the properties of matter and
    > > its interactions, and thus in the laws that describe the physical
    > > world - whether those laws deal with particles or fields, or are
    > > classical or quantum.<
    > >
    > > I would take Peter's model of God selecting an extremely improbable
    > > outcome to produce a novel structure as an example of introducing a
    > > new type of organization without a change in the laws of physics.
    > > Similarly, creating some entity ex nihilo (e.g., the first cell) and
    > > then letting it carry on under ordinary providence would not require
    > > an alteration of the laws of physics, though they would be set aside
    > > in the creation event itself.
    >
    > Peter's model doesn't involve the possibility for a new type of
    > organization but merely the realization of a situation that we might
    > have expected, on statistical grounds, not to have happened for a much
    > longer time.

    You are right, the organization we find in living things conforms to the
    basic physical laws. But it doesn't conform to physical structures we
    are entitled to expect to spontaneously arise. How much longer is the
    "longer time" you suggest? Are you ready for severalfold exponentiation
    (10^(10^(10^...(...^10)...)) years)? I don't think we get around a
    miraculous infusion of information.

    > With your second example, the question would be whether or not
    > the first cell could have come about in accord with the laws of
    > physics prior to its appearance. If so, its creation ex nihilo was
    > unnecessary. If not, then something has happened that cannot be
    > explained by the laws of physics.
    >
    > Shalom,
    >
    > George
    >
    > George L. Murphy

    Could something that cannot be explained by the laws of physics (e.g.
    due to a configurational space allowing a transastronomical number of
    different paths) nevertheless be in accordance with the laws of physics?

    Peter



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