Re: Response to: What does the creation lack?

From: D. F. Siemens, Jr. (
Date: Mon Dec 10 2001 - 14:08:17 EST

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    On Sun, 09 Dec 2001 20:06:38 -0500 george murphy <>
    > Unfortunately even many who are "trained in theology" miss
    > the
    > point. The root of the problem is starting with a concept of a
    > single
    > divine nature which is known apart from revelation, & then trying
    > to
    > shoehorn a threefold character into it somehow. The fact that
    > western
    > theology for ~700 years started with an article on the unity of God
    > & only
    > then spoke of the Trinity, instead of the other way around, meant
    > that the
    > Trinity was always going to be a problem. If we start properly with
    > God's
    > revelation in Jesus who spoke of God as his Father and who promised
    > the
    > Spirit then doctrines of the Trinity are answers rather than
    > questions.
    > Shalom,
    > George
    > George L. Murphy

    Your point is well taken. Our only possible source for the Trinity is
    revelation. Human thought going back to ancient Ionia has come up with
    materialism and, if a deity is involved, with the eternal coexistence of
    matter and God or gods. This applies equally to pantheism and Aristotle's
    Pure Form and Prime Matter. Only recently has the Big Bang indicated a
    beginning to the universe, which was already in the scriptures. Apart
    from the Hebrew scriptures, the "creation" myths are a reshaping of
    something, whether by Marduk using Tiamat, or the Demiurge using what was

    There is another aspect of the situation, in that theology has been
    described as the application of philosophical methods to the data of
    scripture. So, given man's intellectual pride (usually hubris), it is
    small wonder that what can be understood philosophically takes
    precedence. This ignores the fact that henotheism is probably as close to
    monotheism as unaided human thought has come. The rest is bootlegged from
    what can be rationally reconstructed from its forgotten source in
    revelation. Judeo-Christian notions permeate Western thought, whether
    positively or as something to react against.

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