Re: Saints (Was Re: Why YEC?)

Date: Mon Aug 27 2001 - 23:11:48 EDT

  • Next message: Scott Tucker: "Pascal, Paley & Paul"

    Adrian wrote,

    << Paul,
     If I may, I would like to speak on behalf of the RC perspective briefly.
     One of the fundamental doctrines in Catholic theology is the communion of
     saints. The family of God is not just the Christians here on earth, but also
     the those who have gone before us and are with the Lord. These are
     considered "more" alive than those on earth, because they are with God. They
     are more in tune with God's will than we are, and so we ask for their
     intercessory prayer.
     The veneration of Mary is based on a very early Christian understanding that
     Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant, the New Eve, and the Queen Mother
     (other Marian doctrines also flow from these understandings). Catholics
     venerate her and turn to her for intercession because when we are adopted
     into the family of God, we also adopt the family of God as our own. When you
     fall in love with a person, you want to love all the people that this person
     loves. When you marry a person, the family members of that person becomes
     your family. That is why Catholics call Mary their mother, because she is
     the theotokos - Mother of God. And Mary always points us to Jesus -"Do
     whatever He tells you" (John 2:5). If Jesus was the perfect human on earth,
     He would also have fulfilled the OT commandments perfectly, including
     honoring His earthly parents. Thus, there is no way any Catholic or Orthodox
     can honor Mary more than how Jesus has already honored her. He honored her
     by making her His mother, the Queen Mother (an ancient eastern position of
     honor among royalty), His Ark, and His Eve (in the sense that she represents
     the church). The Catholic and Orthodox churches are simply practicing what
     has been practiced since the early days of the church.
     Why pray to Mary? (Why do Christians ask each other to pray?) When I ask you
     to pray for me, I am saying implicitly that you know God, and you are a part
     of the family I belong to. I would not go to a person whom I have very
     little respect for to pray for me, or one who is wicked and against God.
     Also, we honor Mary by praying to her, and in turn that honors God. When I
     complete a piece of art that I am particularly proud of, and I show it off
     to my friends, I feel honored when they praise the work. I don't want them
     talking about how good I look or dressed or whatever, but I want them to
     tell me how beautiful the work is. Mary is God's work of art (in a sense).
     Read the writings of the early fathers (if you have the time) and it will
     become clearer.
     God bless you. >>

    Thank you for taking time to make these comments. I grant at least that
    historically Mary received more honor in the Church than is presently the
    case in Protestant churchs; and, the Protestants may have lost something. I
    also know a number of saintly Catholics who have my deep respect--whether
    they pray to Mary or not. At the same time I am very taken with the teaching
    of Jesus that God the father is very interested in us and our prayers, so
    much interested that I could never go to Mary in prayer because such a
    practice seems to infer that she cares for us more than he does, or is more
    willing to hear our prayers than he is. And, Catholics have inferred to me
    that this is the reason they go to Mary: "God is too busy or too great to
    listen to me." I cannot help but believe our Father is grieved by this. At
    the same time, the heart is of the essence; and I cannot judge the heart.

    May the Lord bless you,


    This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Mon Aug 27 2001 - 23:12:13 EDT