RE: Saints (Was Re: Why YEC?)

From: Adrian Teo (
Date: Mon Aug 27 2001 - 12:58:12 EDT

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    If I may, I would like to speak on behalf of the RC perspective briefly.

    One of the fundamental doctrines in Catholic theology is the communion of
    saints. The family of God is not just the Christians here on earth, but also
    the those who have gone before us and are with the Lord. These are
    considered "more" alive than those on earth, because they are with God. They
    are more in tune with God's will than we are, and so we ask for their
    intercessory prayer.

    The veneration of Mary is based on a very early Christian understanding that
    Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant, the New Eve, and the Queen Mother
    (other Marian doctrines also flow from these understandings). Catholics
    venerate her and turn to her for intercession because when we are adopted
    into the family of God, we also adopt the family of God as our own. When you
    fall in love with a person, you want to love all the people that this person
    loves. When you marry a person, the family members of that person becomes
    your family. That is why Catholics call Mary their mother, because she is
    the theotokos - Mother of God. And Mary always points us to Jesus -"Do
    whatever He tells you" (John 2:5). If Jesus was the perfect human on earth,
    He would also have fulfilled the OT commandments perfectly, including
    honoring His earthly parents. Thus, there is no way any Catholic or Orthodox
    can honor Mary more than how Jesus has already honored her. He honored her
    by making her His mother, the Queen Mother (an ancient eastern position of
    honor among royalty), His Ark, and His Eve (in the sense that she represents
    the church). The Catholic and Orthodox churches are simply practicing what
    has been practiced since the early days of the church.

    Why pray to Mary? (Why do Christians ask each other to pray?) When I ask you
    to pray for me, I am saying implicitly that you know God, and you are a part
    of the family I belong to. I would not go to a person whom I have very
    little respect for to pray for me, or one who is wicked and against God.

    Also, we honor Mary by praying to her, and in turn that honors God. When I
    complete a piece of art that I am particularly proud of, and I show it off
    to my friends, I feel honored when they praise the work. I don't want them
    talking about how good I look or dressed or whatever, but I want them to
    tell me how beautiful the work is. Mary is God's work of art (in a sense).

    Read the writings of the early fathers (if you have the time) and it will
    become clearer.

    God bless you.


    -----Original Message-----
    From: []
    Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 12:16 AM
    Subject: Re: Saints (Was Re: Why YEC?)

    I see that I was not clear. My point involves what I took to be understood
    most of our list that in the Roman Catholic Church the Virgin Mary is not
    just another saint. She has been exalted to the point that functionally she
    is a veritable addition to the Trinity. It is this veritable god that is
    being prayed to. Regardless of how unidolatrous the official RC statement of

    doctrine about Mary may be, functionally she is an idol. People come to her
    where by all rights they should be going to God. If I am correct, then we
    have in these sincere prayers to Mary, prayers to an idol. If so, this is
    idolatry; and in a biblical sense is a practice which is a lie.

    It is to this over-exaltation of the Virgin Mary that I compare the
    "conservative" over-exaltation of the Bible. And, I believe there is some
    functional parallelism as well.



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