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From: D. F. Siemens, Jr. (dfsiemensjr@juno.com)
Date: Wed Aug 22 2001 - 15:43:14 EDT

  • Next message: D. F. Siemens, Jr.: "Re: Why YEC?"

    I can't speak to your precise question. However, avoidance of correction
    seems SOP with members of the group. A goodly number of years ago I
    recall Jerry Albert telling a group of us that, just before a public
    lecture, he was in a group that tackled the speaker (unnamed) about the
    claim that the 2nd Law made evolution impossible. The speaker admitted to
    them that the claim was not true, but, in the lecture, "preached it."

    I might call attention to the material from Curt Sewell recently posted.
    He objects to U-Pb dating because it "assumes uniformitarianism." One may
    recognize that, at one time, the basis for that dating was extrapolation
    from the measurement of alpha, beta and gamma "rays" and chemical
    measurement of the resulting residues. Now quantum considerations provide
    a theoretical basis for radioactivity, both nuclear and hydrogen bombs,
    and reactors. One has to keep his head in the sand not to recognize the
    solid foundation for measuring the age of rocks (and the novas as the
    source of the materials for the solar system and us). I have not heard of
    any YEC proclaiming that quantum physics is a crock because it supports
    radioactive dating. You might also tackle some of them on the items I
    brought up in the articles in _Perspectives_, vol 44 (1992)--September
    and December. See if their approach is, "I don't believe it, so it isn't

    These guys remind me of the story of the old fellow from the backwoods
    whose first visit to town coincided with the arrival of the circus. He
    accepted the cats, even though they were bigger than any he'd ever
    encountered. He swallowed hard at the big gray beasts with a tail at each
    end. But when he craned to see the small head 10 feet over his head, he
    proclaimed, "It's a lie," and stalked off toward home.

    On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:36:14 -0400 Bill Cobern <bill.cobern@wmich.edu>
    > I have a question about Duane Gish. I'd ask him directly if anyone on
    > the
    > list knows has an email address for him.
    > On the Science & Technology Studies <STS@NIC.SURFNET.NL> list,
    > someone
    > commented:
    > "The levels of dishonesty exhibited by the likes of Duane Gish and
    > other
    > debaters and pamphlets concerning creationism are quite amazing."
    > I took issue with this person bec/ Gish has never struck me as being
    > dishonest. The original commenter wrote this back to me:
    > "In one of Gish's debates he used the Bombadier Beetle example. The
    > oppoenent
    > happened to know an article showing how the beetle could have
    > evolved the two
    > components which, when mixed explode, but which had immediate
    > prescursors
    > which would not. Gish granted the point, and admitted he had been
    > wrong on
    > that example.
    > Then during his next debate appearance to a different audience he
    > used the
    > Bombadier Beetle example again."
    > Can anyone one the ASA list verify this claim? I'd like to know.
    > cheers
    > Bill Cobern
    > William W. Cobern, Ph.D.
    > Associate Dean for Academic Programs
    > College of Education
    > Western Michigan University Voice:
    > +616.387.2971 FAX: +616.387.2882
    > 2306 Sangren Hall Research Web
    > http://www.wmich.edu/slcsp/slcsp.htm
    > Kalamazoo, MI 49008-5192 (Scientific Literacy
    > and
    > Cultural Studies Project)

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