Re: Why YEC?

From: Todd S. Greene (
Date: Tue Aug 21 2001 - 20:21:39 EDT

  • Next message: Tim Ikeda: "Re: Discontinuity Conference Report"

    Hi, John.

    It isn't lying, because lying, to me anyway, means that the person has
    set out to purposely deceive. But what very many YECs, in my experience,
    practice is an attitude of being "obstinate in error." By this I mean
    that they purposely ignore and obstinately refuse to acknowledge clear,
    unequivocal contradictory information, and thus obstinately refuse to
    correct the erroneous information that they believe and promote.

    At my website I have archived a discussion in which the YECs (one a
    preacher and on an applied physics professor) put forward the
    YEC-honored argument that "evolutionists have no explanation for
    short-term comets." Seeing the promotion of this blatant error, I
    immediately pointed out that not only do astronomers (not evolutionists)
    have a good, reasonable explanation for short-term comets (the Kuiper
    Belt), but they have had this explanation since the early 1950s (i.e.,
    for at least 35 years), and -- even worse for their YEC argument -- this
    explanation had been getting empirical verification, due to advances in
    astronomical instrumentation -- beginning in 1992. So did these YECs
    practice honesty and acknowledge their error? No, they obstinately
    refused to acknowledge in any way whatsoever that their argument was
    mistaken. In several posts to the discussion, I explicitly requested
    some acknowledgment, any acknowledge of the error of this YEC argument,
    and not one of them wrote a word but everyone purposely chose to remain
    silently ignorant. I agree that this common YEC practice of being
    obstinate-in-error is not lying, but surely it is just as sinful. Though
    it is less direct than lying, its results are exactly the same and it
    works to do the same thing as lying. Thus, it does indeed "function as a

    (That particular discussion about short-term comets begins here: )

    How YECs get away with proclaiming that the Christian faith of anyone
    who does not accept the young earth creationism doctrine is somehow on
    an inferior status to those who do accept it, is surely the fascinating,
    and destructive, propaganda coup of the YEC movement of the last 30
    years. What preachers genuinely preaching Christian morality should be
    criticizing is this attitude of obstinacy-in-error. Why aren't they more
    outspoken about this? Is personal honesty not that important a part of
    the Christian faith? Hmmm...

    Todd S. Greene

       Would a wise man answer with empty notions
       or fill his belly with the hot east wind?
       Would he argue with useless words,
       with speeches that have no value?
       But you even undermine piety
       and hinder devotion to God.
       Your sin prompts your mouth;
       you adopt the tongue of the crafty.
       Your own mouth condemns you, not mine;
       your own lips testify against you.
       Are you the first man ever born?
       Were you brought forth before the hills?
       Do you listen in on God's council?
       Do you limit wisdom to yourself?
       What do you know that we do not know?
       What insights do you have that we do not have?
           Job 15:2-9 [NIV]

       The heart of the discerning acquires knowledge;
       the ears of the wise seek it out.
           Proverbs 18:15

       The man of integrity walks securely,
       but he who takes crooked paths will be found out.
           Proverbs 10:9

       How long will you simple ones love your simple ways?
       How long will mockers delight in mockery and fools
          hate knowledge?
           Proverbs 1:22

       If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall
       into a pit.
           Matthew 15:14

       Someone might argue, "If my falsehood enhances God's
       truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still
       condemned as a sinner?" Why not say as we are being
       slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that
       we say "Let us do evil that good may result"? Their
       condemnation is deserved.
           Romans 3:7-8

    ###### John W. Burgeson, 8/21/01 12:17 PM ######
    PHSEELY wrote, in part: "Although I do not believe YEC's have any
    consciousness of lying, because YECism is false, it functions as a lie
    and inevitably demands more lies to keep the first lie intact. This
    commitment to darkness invites demonic reinforcement."

    I am uncomfortable with the words "lying" and "lie" in the above. Being
    mistaken about something, and insisting on the truth of something false
    as a result, is just being mistaken, not lying. At least in my thinking.
    As such, I don't realy see any "committment to darkness" involved, and
    certainly no "demons."

    Partly I say this because I know Dr. Gish fairly well, have broken bread
    with him and Henry Morris, etc. I regard them both as decent, honorable,
    moral persons who happen to be wrong on something. By the way, Gish once
    said just about the same thing to me in an email a few years ago.

    I know you said "functions as a lie," but I really think there is a
    difference here.

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Tue Aug 21 2001 - 22:12:59 EDT