RE: The Future of Evolution

From: Adrian Teo (
Date: Tue Apr 17 2001 - 13:24:17 EDT

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    Hello Dave,
    Even while recognizing that God "stands" outside of time and space, the
    question of God's intent while working in time and space is valid, I think.
    The Incarnation speaks to the importance of understanding God's plan within
    the confines of time and space. Just as it is reasonable to ask why God
    created humans or what humans were like prior to the fall, I think it is
    just as reasonable to ask why God chose the processes of evolution to give
    rise to humans. I don't disagree with the gist of what you wrote, but
    unfortunately, I fail to see the error in my questions.

    -----Original Message-----
    From: David F Siemens []
    Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 3:49 PM
    Subject: Re: The Future of Evolution

    Let a different David put in a word. I believe that the phrasing of the
    question indicates an erroneous view of the deity. We are so totally
    restricted to time that we try to apply the notion universally. This was the
    problem with the prelapsarian-postlapsarian controversy in early Calvinism.
    The question dissolves when one realizes that the before and after is human
    and has no relevance to God's knowledge and purpose. It is also relevant to
    notice that knowledge is not causal. So God's foreknowledge does not
    determine human action, a matter overlooked in some of the current
    "evangelical" theological climate. However, this is not a restriction on
    what God can do. His will is eternal, like his knowledge, though each event
    is perceived by us in time--our restriction. So God knows me as glorified,
    but I am waiting for the revelation of the children of God with the promise
    and foretaste, for I do not yet perceive the reality.
    If I try to think of something, it has to be sequential. The closest I can
    come to the nontemporal understanding of something is perhaps the "aha!"
    experience. But that still involves a gestation period that I overlook in
    what seems to be a sudden total insight. As I try to think through or
    explain this understanding, I am clearly back in the strictly sequential,
    however much I minimize it in the process.
    Augustine was already aware that time began with creation, which is the act
    of God free of the result. In God's eternal view, which is nontemporal
    because it is outside of time, the whole is comprehended "before" the
    beginning. This is different from our eternity, the endless time of the
    creature. We look forward to the "ages to come" rather than to an end of
    time and a timeless existence.
    This also solves the problem of prayer. At the moment of creation, God
    already knew when and if we would pray, and what we would pray. So the
    answer was already built in at the time the world began. Also, God has no
    problem with deterministic chaos and quantum indeterminacy, for he is not
    waiting for the states to kick in. Whatever happens is already known to him,
    whether determined or not is irrelevant. It's all eternally open to him. God
    can never be surprised. This means that the pain he feels at our
    disobedience is an eternal pain. Impassivity does not mean that he does not
    On Mon, 16 Apr 2001 10:00:34 -0700 Adrian Teo <> writes:


    Do you think that evolution was a result of the fall or was it part of the
    pre-fall design? If evolution has always been there even prior to the fall,
    then what do you suppose is God's purpose for designing such a process?


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