Re: The Future of Evolution

From: David F Siemens (
Date: Mon Apr 16 2001 - 18:49:25 EDT

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    Let a different David put in a word. I believe that the phrasing of the
    question indicates an erroneous view of the deity. We are so totally
    restricted to time that we try to apply the notion universally. This was
    the problem with the prelapsarian-postlapsarian controversy in early
    Calvinism. The question dissolves when one realizes that the before and
    after is human and has no relevance to God's knowledge and purpose. It is
    also relevant to notice that knowledge is not causal. So God's
    foreknowledge does not determine human action, a matter overlooked in
    some of the current "evangelical" theological climate. However, this is
    not a restriction on what God can do. His will is eternal, like his
    knowledge, though each event is perceived by us in time--our restriction.
    So God knows me as glorified, but I am waiting for the revelation of the
    children of God with the promise and foretaste, for I do not yet perceive
    the reality.

    If I try to think of something, it has to be sequential. The closest I
    can come to the nontemporal understanding of something is perhaps the
    "aha!" experience. But that still involves a gestation period that I
    overlook in what seems to be a sudden total insight. As I try to think
    through or explain this understanding, I am clearly back in the strictly
    sequential, however much I minimize it in the process.

    Augustine was already aware that time began with creation, which is the
    act of God free of the result. In God's eternal view, which is
    nontemporal because it is outside of time, the whole is comprehended
    "before" the beginning. This is different from our eternity, the endless
    time of the creature. We look forward to the "ages to come" rather than
    to an end of time and a timeless existence.

    This also solves the problem of prayer. At the moment of creation, God
    already knew when and if we would pray, and what we would pray. So the
    answer was already built in at the time the world began. Also, God has no
    problem with deterministic chaos and quantum indeterminacy, for he is not
    waiting for the states to kick in. Whatever happens is already known to
    him, whether determined or not is irrelevant. It's all eternally open to
    him. God can never be surprised. This means that the pain he feels at our
    disobedience is an eternal pain. Impassivity does not mean that he does
    not feel.

    On Mon, 16 Apr 2001 10:00:34 -0700 Adrian Teo <>
    Do you think that evolution was a result of the fall or was it part of
    the pre-fall design? If evolution has always been there even prior to the
    fall, then what do you suppose is God's purpose for designing such a

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