RE: ~Preposterous

From: Vandergraaf, Chuck (
Date: Mon Apr 02 2001 - 15:04:46 EDT

  • Next message: Todd S. Greene: "Re: preposterous"


    I don't think that anybody on this forum would deny that God could create
    the world in six days. God could have done it in an instant and may well
    have done so, if we look only at Gen. 1:1: "In the beginning, God created
    the heavens and the earth."

    Where the problems arise is what the Bible records after Gen 1:1 and what we
    see in nature. Here I see two options:

    1. the Bible is factually correct and "things" happened exactly as the Bible
    says: Adam was formed out of dust (or whatever the original word for "dust"
    represented) and lost a rib when Eve was created. Why Cain was worried
    about being killed after he was sentenced by God is not clear, of course,
    because at that stage, the human population was not very large. Admittedly,
    we are not told how old Cain was when he killed Abel and there may have been
    siblings and nephews that had, by that time, left the homestead. To "make
    things fit," God would have created a mature universe, complete with oil and
    gas deposits, and radiogenic lead in uranium ores.
    2. the Bible is not intended to be a "blow by blow account" of what happened
    in history. This does wonders to the latitude we have in our interpretation
    of the geological record but may create problems of the sort you indicate,
    such as the origin of sin. We may be able to climb out of that box by
    interpreting that, at one point in history, God "elevated" a proto-Adam to a
    responsible condition where He made that person accountable for his deeds.
    That Adam failed, and required God's intervention in history by sending His

    As to answering prayers, I tend to agree with you, even though that position
    is, to me, somewhat akin to a "trivial solution" in mathematics: if we
    define "God answering prayers" by "accepting whatever God decides is good
    for us," then the only prayer that will be answered is the one where we ask
    God for the grace to accept whatever befalls us (I was going to write
    "whatever God dishes out but that would make God the creator of evil and
    that doesn't fly). When we, for example, ask God fervently in prayer that a
    young mother's life be spared from a (to us) inoperable cancer but end our
    prayer with "Thy will be done," are we making two conflicting requests if
    the mother dies? That, of course, gets us on to the slippery slope as to
    what God's will is and what He allows to happen. He may not will for those
    poor children to be mother-less but allows it.


    Chuck Vandergraaf
    Pinawa, MB

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Panaccione,Brian J. []
    Sent: Monday April 02, 2001 11:25 AM
    To: 'george murphy'; 'Moorad Alexanian'
    Cc: 'Mccarrick Alan D CRPH'; 'ASA List'
    Subject: ~Preposterous

    Preposterous only when we place improper limits on God,(emphasis on

    We are the limiting factor here, at best we are only able to apprehend
    (not comprehend) who God is and what He is capable of. To assume
    otherwise is pure folly, but Man has a long and "PROUD" history of
    believing himself to be more capable than he ought. We are our biggest
    fan, and too infatuated with our own cleverness.

    If we hold the Genesis account of Creation to be allegorical, then Man
    is not in a fallen state, there is no need for a Savior, and for that
    matter, there's no need for the Scriptures, so the whole young
    earth -vs- old earth debate is a waste of time.

    On the subject of prayer, God always "answers" our prayers. Too often,
    we define an "answered prayer" as one God responds to in a way
    consistent with our desired outcome. "No" is an equally valid response,
    even when we are walking in the Lord.

    The purpose of prayer is not to get God to change His plans. Prayer
    conforms us to His plan for our lives, and should be a conversation with
    God not a diatribe.

    Peace be with you,

    Brian Panaccione

    -----Original Message-----
    From: []On
    Behalf Of george murphy
    Sent: Monday, 02 April, 2001 10:19
    To: Moorad Alexanian
    Cc: Mccarrick Alan D CRPH; 'ASA List'
    Subject: Re:

    Moorad Alexanian wrote:

    > I often wondered how the promise of God to answer all our prayers
    jibes with
    > actual, personal experiences. It downed on me that if we are truly in
    > Lord, then the prayers we ask will definitely be answered. Similarly,
    > one confronts moral situations, the Ten Commandments are guiding
    > that together with our walk in the light of the Truth, which is
    > will determine our moral choices pleasing to God. The question of what
    > happened in the past, the history of mankind, is a difficult one. I
    > criticize YEC since one is not convinced, beyond a reasonable doubt,
    of what
    > took place.

            It is not heretical to believe that the universe was created in
    6 days
    6000 years ago but it is preposterous.



    George L. Murphy
    "The Science-Theology Interface"

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Mon Apr 02 2001 - 15:05:46 EDT