To Glenn again

From: John Burgeson (
Date: Sat Nov 11 2000 - 13:45:05 EST

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    Glenn wrote:

    "From this I am gathering that you believe that Genesis is also an ancient

    I am amazed that you still don't understand.


    You still fall into the dyadic fallacy.

    There are n beliefs one may have about Genesis 1-11,
    where n is a number at least one bigger than the number of possibilities
    in any list anyone has made.

    My position is that I DO NOT KNOW how much
    "real history" is contained in Genesis 1-11; it may be a lot, it may be
    it may be little, it may be none.

    Actually, I think that's your position too. The difference between us,
    and I respect that difference, although I don't really understand it,
    is that you think it of high importance to figure out and I do not.
    I think it may be of high INTEREST, but that interest is academic,
    and largly unrelated to my Christian position.
    You went on: "By myth do you mean that they have little historical truth?
    If so, why
    on earth did you chastise me for calling them 'little more than fairy

    Because, my good friend, there is a whale of a lot of difference between a
    myth, or
    a family story (same thing) and a fairy tale. If those two terms are
    to you, then we need to search for better terminology. But I see a
    substantial difference. To call a family story a "fairy tale" is
    pejorative; a
    put down. When your grandfather tells of "the old days," going to school
    in the snow, barefoot, uphill both ways, I suggest that if you call his
    family story a "fairy tale" you'll get slapped upside the head.
    Glenn: " can't deny historicity for these accounts and then claim
    that they are all real in someway."

    Why not? Anyway I don't deny, I just withhold judgement on that factor.
    Their "realness" may, or may not, be rooted in "real history."
    Glenn: "I will accept Ramm as a conservative. But he denies evolution.
    Remember I said that you couldn't name a conservative writer who both
    accepted the age of the earth and evolution (both things that modern
    accepts). Ramm believed in progressive creation NOT evolution..."

    I've read Ramm; the quotes were unnecessary. OK. So you define a
    "conservative writer" as one who does not accept evolution. Big deal.
    just a definition, and as such, beside the point. Let's drop it.
    Glenn went on: "For something to be an analogy, which I most
    assuredly understand, it must be analogical. One can't explain drilling for
    oil by saying it is like grass growing."

    I'm going to pass on this one. From my point of view either you did not
    read me correctly, or I was simply (as usual) unclear.
    I wrote:
    > Genesis 1-11 contains "truth," Glenn. But that truth was written in a way
    > people of long ago would recognize and accept. To assert that it must
    > conform to the myths of the 21st century is naive.

    and you, mysteriously, replied with this non-sequitor:

    "And I keep pointing out, but no one notices or pays attention, their were
    ancient societies who understood evolution. Here is what Encarta 2000
    (snip -- quoting Bill Gates is not really necessary)

    "Now, this concept that the ancient Hebrews were too stupid to understand
    evolution and therefore had to be fed some fairy tale that wasn't true,
    simply insults the intelligence of the ancient Hebrews and flies in the
    of the fact that ancient cultures UNDERSTOOD evolution!!!!!"

    Nobody (but you) ever posed the idea that the ancient Hebrews
    were too stupid... .

    We seem to go around on this every few months, without getting very far.
    I'll let you conclude this time.

    Burgy (I'll be back! < G >)

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