Re: Meteor Program

From: Diane Roy (
Date: Thu Aug 03 2000 - 01:39:09 EDT

  • Next message: glenn morton: "Re: Meteor Program"

      From: glenn morton
      I will re-post what I posted before about all the different killing
      mechanisms of a major impact crater. Even if most of the energy is directed
      upward, enough goes around the earth to kill everything, or nearly
      everything. Maybe you should try to answer this data, which you didn't last
      time and apparently you still haven't incorporated it into your thinking.
      Here is what I posted before. Please deal with each of these killing
      mechanisms before you say that the flood was caused by such an event.

      AR: In order to deal with this I need more that vivid descriptions. Where are the figures? All these things and other similar descriptions I have read before. I have no trouble making them a part of the catastrophic flood model. I have done some computing which you have not comment on. You have chosen to go off on tangents and ignore the computations.

      I believe that some of these vivid descriptions are slightly exaggerated and that they do not take into consideration global rains occurring at the same time. I'd be more than willing to deal with figures as I did on the other occasions but here there is nothing.

      "Computer models of explosions with energies of 1,000 megatons--about 20
      times the energy of the largest nuclear bombs but only 1/100,000 the energy
      of the KT impact--have shown that the fireball never reaches pressure
      equilibrium with the surrounding atmosphere. Instead, as the fireball
      expands to altitudes where the density of the atmosphere declines
      significantly, its rise accelerates and the gas leaves the atmosphere at
      velocities fast enough to escape the earth's gravitational field. The
      fireball from an even greater asteroid impact would simply burst out the
      top of the atmosphere, carrying any entrained ejecta with it, sending the
      material into orbits that could carry it anywhere on the earth."

      AR: What is the distribution of the impact energy here? How much is take to space with the fire ball? How much entrained ejecta are we talking about?

      "The impact of a comet-size body on the earth, creating a crater 150
      kilometers in diameter, would clearly kill everything within sight of the

      AR: Within site, I talked before about this, mentioning a radius of 1000 miles as being far more than what would be in sight of the blast, and so it would contain the initial results of the blast. This represent a relatively small part of the surface of the earth.

      Researchers are refining their understanding of the means by
      which an impact would also trigger extinction worldwide. Mechanisms
      proposed include darkness, cold, fire, acid rain and greenhouse heat.
      "In our original paper, we proposed that impact-generated dust caused
      global darkness that resulted in extinctions. According to computer
      simulations made in 1980 by Richard P. Turco of R&D Associates, O. Brian
      Toon, of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration and their
      colleagues, dust lofted into the atmosphere by the impact of a 10-kilometer
      object would block so much light that for months you would literally be
      unable to see your hand in front of your face.

      AR: in the case of the Flood you have 12 months to wait out many of these effects. And there is a factor they do not take into consideration. Continual, global rains for 150 from waters blasted and entrained into space and the high atmosphere. These rains would wash out the pollutants and dilute the effects they describe above -- darkness, cold, fire, acid rain and greenhouse heat. The dust lofted into the atmosphere could be largely removed by the waters also lofted into the high atmosphere and above. basically, they don't consider the effect of many impacts at once.

      "Without sunlight, plant photosynthesis would stop. Food chains everywhere
      would collapse. The darkness would also produce extremely cold
      temperatures, a condition termed impact winter. (After considering the
      effects of the impact, Turco, Toon and their colleagues went on to study
      nuclear winter, a related phenomenon as capable of producing mass
      extinctions today as impact winter was 65 million years ago.)

      AR: In the Creationary Catastrophe model, the food chain of the globe is destroyed. And a nuclear winter may have helped start the Oard Ice Age.

      "In 1981 Cesare Emilliani of the University of Miami, Eric Krause of the
      University of Colorado and Eugene M. Shoemaker of the USGS pointed out that
      an oceanic impact would loft not only rock dust but also water vapor into
      the atmosphere. The vapor, trapping the earth's heat, would stay aloft much
      longer than the dust, and so the impact winter would be followed by
      greenhouse warming. More recently John D. O'Keefe and Thomas J. Ahrens of
      the California Institute of Technology have suggested that the impact might
      have occurred in a limestone area, releasing large volumes of carbon
      dioxide, another greenhouse gas. Many plants and animals that survived the
      extreme cold of impact winter could well have been killed by a subsequent
      period of extreme heat.

      You combine large quantities of dust with large quantities of water vapor in the high cool atmosphere spells condensation -- rain. I believe that this projection is full of holes.

      "Meanwhile John S. Lewis, G. Hampton Watkins, Hyman Hartman and Ronald G.
      Prinn of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology have calculated that
      shock heating of the atmosphere during impact would raise temperatures high
      enough for the oxygen and nitrogen to combine. The resulting nitrous oxide
      would eventually rain out of the air as nitric acid--an acid rain with a
      vengeance. This mechanism may well explain the widespread extinction of
      marine invertebrate plants and animals, whose calcium carbonate shells are
      soluble in acidic water.

      AR: The amount of rain would dilute the effects of these acids. The Flood model proposes large quantities of rain.

      "Another killing mechanism came to light when Wendy Wolbach, Ian Gilmore
      and Edward Anders of the University of Chicago discovered large amounts of
      soot in the KT boundary clay. If the clay had been laid down in a few years
      or less, the amount of soot in the boundary would indicate a sudden burning
      of vegetation equivalent to half of the world's current forests. Jay Meos
      of the University of Arizona and his colleagues have calculated that
      infrared radiation from ejecta heated to incandescence while reentering the
      atmosphere could have ignited fires around the globe." Walter Alvarez and
      Frank Asaro, "An Extraterrestrial Impact," Scientific American, Oct. 1990,
      p. 80-82

      AR: I pointed out before that continual rain and continual clouds would reduce the effect of infrared radiation from reentering ejecta. Also, one would expect fires during the Flood especially close to impact sites. The pre-flood's forests were likely several times larger than today, so the amount of soot may only represent a small portion of the global forests at that time.
      The problem with all these descriptions is that energy figures are not given so it is not possible to analyze their conclusions.

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