Coal (Was the saddest statement)

Bill Payne (
Mon, 30 Aug 1999 02:12:46 -0600

On Sun, 15 Aug 1999 11:45:41 +0000 writes:
>At 10:52 PM 08/14/1999 -0600, Bill Payne wrote:

>Even if every coal was formed by a floating mat, that is not evidence
>global flood. If floating mats occur in swamps today, as they do in the
>Okefenokee, then floating mats are clearly a natural phenomenon which
>not require a global flood to form. Thus there is no causal connection
>between floating mats and a flooded earth.

I agree that there is no causal connection between the floating mats of
the Okefenokee and a global flood. What you are missing is the fact that
there is no empirical connection between the floating mats of the
Okefenokee and Carboniferous coals. You are under the impression that
all floating mats are alike; you are mistaken. There is no way that you
could get the Okefenokee deposits to look like Pennsylvanian coal seams.
As you admitted, you have no explanation within your Okefenokee model for
the partings which are ubiquitous in coals.

>>At least you're now openly admitting that coals appear to be
>>allochthonous. During a discussion while you were off-line, Jonathan
>>Clarke found it hard to believe that you would make such an
>I am open to it because the floating mats of Okefenokee are
>coals, in which the peats are transported not much more that a half a
> So what? That does not mean they were deposited by a global flood,
>does not mean that the existence of meandering river channels can't form
>the swamps and it doesn't proove that the time frame was short. Bill,
>are trying to make a case for a global flood which is based upon
>that fits quite well into an old earth/slow deposition of coal. The
>evidence you cite is equivocal.

I am finding that vertical tree stumps cross-cutting strata (polystrate
fossils) are quite common in sandstones and shales associated with coal
seams in Alabama. I think we would agree that the strata in which these
polystrates are found must have been deposited rapidly, or the trees
would have rotted if their burial had taken thousands of years. Based
upon the frequent occurrence of polystrate tree fossils, a case may be
made for the rapid deposition of much of the geologic record associated
with coals. Based upon the common occurrence of partings and the total
lack of tree stumps/roots cross-cutting the coal (which is exactly what
we would see if your Okefenokee model were correct), we can logically
infer deposition from a floating mat similar to the peat deposit from the
floating logs in Spirit Lake below Mt. St. Helens, which again is rapid

These observations are not equivocal, and their implications are not
discussed, AFAIk, in the literature.