Re: the saddest statement

John W. Burgeson (
Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:53:54 -0600

I had written:

>For you, then, God must be omnipotent and have "done everything right
>complete" at the beginning.

Glenn replied:

"Yes, I see God as omnipotent. I really don't like the idea of a fallible

What YOU like (or me, for that matter) ought not have any bearing on the

I continued:

>But, even if I would concede omnipotence, and I could do that, that does
>not rule out the idea of God "playing around" with his creation -- from
>time to time changing things, introducing new life forms, even new
>physical laws!

and Glenn answered:

"Playing around, yes. I could see that. But there is no way to know what
playing and what is preplanned. and playing for fun's sake is different
than appearing to practice to get things right."

The operative phrase, Glenn, is "there is no way to know." It is your
conclusion that the evidence suggests "practicing to get things right"
rather than "playing around." I am comfortable with either suggestion,
myself, even if omnipotence is assumed. God, if omnipotent, is quite
capable of limiting his omnipotence in order to accomplish his ends.

I, in a baseball game, am quite capable of hitting the ball over the
fence. All I have to do is stand about 20 feet from it, and toss it to
myself. If I limit myself to standing at the plate and swinging at a Bob
Feller fast ball, I am somewhat less capable. (Even though Bob is now
somewhat up in years). < G >

I wrote:

>He did, you know, "play around" at the Cana wedding; certainly this was
>PC event. Other events can easily be cited. Given PC events HAVE taken
>place, what is the problem of holding a PC, rather than a TE, position?
>Theologically of course?

Glenn answered:

"It comes back to the fumbling God idea. God doesn't seem to be like me,
one who must experiment, fail and then improve. I do appreciate the
where God supposedly changes his mind. They do bother me and my

"Fumbling God" is your conjecture, of course. Do you have any scriptural
citation to suggest God never experiments, fails, then improves? Seems to
me that the story of Israel is just that sort of story. Does God ever
change his mind? Scripture is chock full of such instances. Why does the
PC position suggest to you a "fumbling God?" Can you conceive of a PC
postilion that does not?

Burgy (may "disappear at any time for a month when grandchild #6

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