Re: Phil Johnson on Focus on the Family

John Neal (
Thu, 29 Apr 1999 03:34:24 -0400

To further your point, once truths are revealed, true knowledge can be
attained, and therefore true science may be attained. Science without God
is a bottomless pit, because through the eyes of the soul who has not God,
all "ethical" science is strict empirical observation. Paul clearly states
that this is NOT the walk of a believer, "For we walk by faith, and not by
sight." Further, lest you reduce faith to what I see as the foolishness of
"cotton-candy" christianity, faith is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for, the
EVIDENCE of things not seen. Why in the world would you think the apostles
spoke of the faith with such preciousness, such wonder? Having REAL faith
is to possess the desire of nations. It is have the answer EVERYBODY is
independantly seeking. There are no questions in faith, because faith has
all the answers! Why do you think Paul admonishes Timothy to avoid 'old
wives tales' and everything else that doesn't result in Godly edifying?

No, you see, it is your very own reasoning that frieghtens others from
entering into the truth that all things are from God, and can ultimately be
traced back to Him. Your reasoning is common as well, but it is like the
common conception of the black hole, it's massive pull sucks you in, you get
obliterated in the middle, and nobody knows what comes out on the other

Stick with the bible. God knows what he's talking about regardless of what
you think. Regardless of what I think, or anybody else, for that matter.
Christ didn't receive testimony from man because he didn't want to be
bothered with differing views from his well respected peers. No, Christ
didn't receive testimony from man because he knew what was in man. How can
a blind man give accurate comment on the beauty of a sunset? How can a deaf
man do the same for the majesty of the sound of a waterfall such as the
Niagra? Man is a worm. Who are you to reply against God?


----- Original Message -----
From: Moorad Alexanian <>
To: Loren Haarsma <>; American Sci Affil
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: Phil Johnson on Focus on the Family

> In my post I was referring to what goes on in public, nonreligious
> universities. I believe, my picture is more accurate than not. One is
> questioning the motives or integrity of other Christians. I have often
> that when one does science, God does not came into the picture. The models
> that scientists develop have nothing to do with God directly. Once a
> scientist brings God into the picture, then he/she will be discredited by
> the scientific establishment. Models in science do not and cannot contain
> God. The main issue is if some questions are scientific or not. When a
> physicist wants to study why the fundamental constants have the values
> do he/she cannot invoke God. That is the rule of doing science. However,
> the answer to why the fundamental constants have the numerical values they
> do may not be deducible from a scientific theory. In such a case, the
> question is not a scientific question. It is clear to me that invariably
> reaches a regressive point beyond which science is helpless. The creation
> the universe is one such question. The questions of origins is another
> question. Let us face it if there is indeed a Creator, then most certainly
> the creature can never know the Creator except at the whim of the Creator.
> Thus the need of revealed truths.
> Moorad
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loren Haarsma <>
> To: American Sci Affil <>
> Cc: Moorad Alexanian <>
> Date: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 3:52 PM
> Subject: Re: Phil Johnson on Focus on the Family
> >
> >
> >On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Moorad Alexanian wrote:
> >
> >> I should like to relate my interaction with the biology department in
> >> university. I wrote a letter to the editor disagreeing with an op-ed
> article
> >> on evolution. Per chance I spoke to a Christian professor in the
> >> department and while in the conversation asked him if he had read my
> letter.
> >> He said he had not read the letter in the newspaper but that my letter
> was
> >> posted on the bulletin board of the biology department and that they
> >> getting ready to answer my letter. The reply to my letter came in the
> >> newspaper and was signed by 13 faculty members of the biology
> >> department---it seems that the other half of the department did not
> to
> >> sign the letter and my Christian friend did not sign the letter either.
> >> suppose numbers count! There seems to be a division in biology
> departments
> >> on this issue but I do not see any Christian professors writing letters
> to
> >> the editor expounding their views. Is this brought about by scientific
> >> pressure? I do believe that tenure and promotions in most universities
> are
> >> based on certain intangibles as, for instance, your faith and how
> strongly
> >> you show it. I think Johnson is right! Let us face it university
> faculties
> >> are composed mostly of liberals and radicals. Where does a Christian
> in
> >> such a system?
> >
> >
> >It saddens me that you, Johnson, and others have such a low opinion of
> >motives and integrity of your Christian brothers and sisters. Over the
> >past years, I have participated in a great many Bible
> >study/prayer/discussion groups with Christian graduate students and
> >faculty. Issues of tenure and promotions were often discussed. Usually
> >those discussions were about how our love for and obedience to God
> >conflicts with the workaholism which the scientific meritocracy rewards
> >and expects for advancement. Sometimes, we also discussed issues of
> >vocally expounding Christian values, opposing philosophical naturalism,
> >etc. Based upon all of those discussions with hundred of young and
> >old scientist Christians at several different universities and
> >conferences -- Christians who freely shared with each other their
> >deepest convictions and struggles to live out their faith -- I can say
> >with great confidence that Johnson's assessment of their motives,
> >integrity, and courage is utterly wrong.
> >
> >
> >Loren Haarsma
> >