Re: Tom Van Flandern & Bill

Bill Payne (
Sat, 3 Apr 1999 23:46:38 -0600

Hey there, Adam,

On Sat, 03 Apr 1999 04:35:18 PST "Adam Crowl" <> writes:

>Bill Payne...I'm a bit confused.
>You're arguing about coal and its floating [or not] origins, but you're
>also in touch with TvFlandern... why? Aren't you a YEC [even with OEC
>sympathies]? Then how can you support all the exploding planet stuff
>too, which requires immense time-frames compared with the Genesis 6000
>years. Comets and asteroids could not have dispersed into their present
>range of orbits in a few millennia, as is quite clear from TVF's own
>studies. His scenarios require millions of years, even if some effects
are quite >prompt.
>So what's going on Bill?

Darn, caught again! Maybe I should use a pseudonym when communicating
with OECs? :-)

I have a personal affinity for YEC, partly I guess because I like to buck
the flow, and primarily because I feel more comfortable drawing the
scripture through the YEC timeframe. I guess the key verse that swings
me into the YEC grid is Jude 14: "Enoch, the seventh from Adam,...." As
was recently pointed out, there may be some generations missing, but the
thrust of the verse (in my mind) is that Adam was a real person in the
not too distant past.

I thirst for the truth, and therefore don't mind learning about anything
regardless of what model it seems to support. I will freely grant you
that there are what I consider, given my limited scope of knowledge, very
good arguments supporting OEC. The arguments may be flawed, and I look
for the flaws, but haven't been very successful (haven't been successful
at all) in refuting those like Tom's as you pointed out above.

However, if the timescale were shortened (please don't ask me how, I
grant you in advance that I can't answer the arguments against what I am
saying now), Tom's exploding planet consisting largely of water would
give support to the Bibical idea of Genesis 7:11: "...and the floodgates
of heaven were opened."

Tom may wish to comment on his motivations or what he is trying to
prove/support. I'll let him speak for himself, but I have found him to
be a delightful and helpful friend.

Back to the timescale, if it were shortened Tom's EPH would support the
Bibical flood, and so would the Pennsylvannian coal seams (IMHO) of the
eastern US. In the meantime, and this will really drive some of our
friends here nuts, I have no problem accepting Gosse's idea of creation
with the appearance of age. OK, OK, I hear you and I agree, to get those
pesky comets and asteroids to settle down in just a few thousand years
would require some divine intervention (or so it seems), and that will
probably give me some philosophical heartburn if I think about it.

One thing I do know, it's EASTER and He is Risen!

God bless you all,


>Have you examined Joachim Scheven's idea that many of the coal tree
>species were actually free-floating forests in the pre-diluvial seas?
>draws on the structure of the roots as evidence. Definitely a novel
>idea... perhaps it's what whales snacked on before being given divine
blessings to eat >meat.

That's funny, I like that Adam. Incidentally, did you ever answer Tom's
question about the evidence for EPH?
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