Re: The Thomas Trap

Glenn R. Morton (
Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:52:45 -0800

At 07:41 AM 11/19/98 -0500, George Murphy wrote:
>Glenn R. Morton wrote:
>> It is clear to me that the disciples did base their belief system on what
>> had been observed. if this is not the case, why didn't Peter and John stay
>> put, eat their dinner and talk politics, rather than run to the sepulchre?
>> BELIEVE AND NOT SEE. They did the same as Thomas!!!!!!
> You continue to neglect an important distinction. Yes, the apostles were
>eyewitnesses of the risen Christ. That is the basis on which they give
>apostolic testimony to the his resurrection, which is at the heart of the
>gospel which they proclaim & which has been transmitted to us. But they
do NOT >invite people to go out and find further observational evidence to
support the >resurrection before believing it!

Paul's citation of the people who still lived who had seen the risen Lord,
was an implicit invitation for someone to go talk to them. If it isn't, why
would Paul mention that they still lived? If he didn't want to invite
people to gather evidence he would have never mentioned those 500 people.

> The gospel has power in itself to create faith because it is not mere
>human words. It is the creative Word of God.
> It's a good thing for us that our faith doesn't depend on having the
>kind of evidence for the resurrection which Thomas asked - _because we're
not >going to get it_!
> The risen Christ isn't going going to appear obligingly to everyone who
>hesitates to believe.

Nobody is asking him to. But one does have a right to aske for some
evidence. I notice that you have not answered my question. Is there any
evidential misfit between science and the Scripture that would cause you to
reject the Bible as false? If so, what is it?

If you can't name any such misfit, then I contend evidence has no bearing
upon your belief system. And IF evidence has no bearing on your belief
system, then I would ask you why you continue to expect me to pay attention
to your evidence? So, I ask again, is there any evidence that would lead
you to reject the Bible as false? What is it?

And I would point out that if Peter and John had done what everyone wanted
them to do--simply believe without seeking evidence--then would anyone here
believe them? Here is what the situation would look like:

Mary and the other women run into the room screaming that Jesus has risen
and that angels had told them of this. Peter and John sat at the breakfast
table and said, 'We knew this was going to happen! We believed Jesus. And
we believe that a man can rise from the dead so much that we don't care to
go see the tomb. Come on sit down and eat some sheep burritos, hey John,
pass the jalepenos."

Would anyone believe the testimony of Peter and John if that was what they
had done? We would think that they were excellent candidates for David
Koresh's followers.

No, their reaction was natural. Of the disciples the Bible said, Luke 24:11
"And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not."

Why are the Disciples allowed to gather further evidence and we aren't?
Where does it say that in the Bible?

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