Re: What does ID mean?

Moorad Alexanian (alexanian@UNCWIL.EDU)
Thu, 07 May 1998 15:12:00 -0500 (EST)

At 08:37 AM 4/24/98 -0400, Massimo Pigliucci wrote:
>Dear Moorad,
>> The mathematical models in meteorology are at the fundamental level of
>> hydrodynamics. You mean to say there are models of evolution at the
>> biochemical level? I do not think so.
>And, once again, you're wrong. Please consult:
>Ward, P.J. 1994. Parent-offspring regression and extreme environments.
>Heredity 72:574-581.
>It is an example of biochemically-based models in quantitative genetics.
>There is a whole field dedicated to it, and Ward's bibliography will
>give you an entry point.

Dear Massimo,

I can assure you that the models in quantitative genetics are very
primitive. Most likely they look very much like phenomenological models for
chemical reactions where one assumes that chemical A can convert to chemical
B with a given, assumed rate.

>Furthermore, since when reducibility to the biochemical level is
>synonimous with predictability? I'm sorry but your assertion that
>metereological models are "fundamental" is also incorrect. I doubt any
>metereologist would use quantum dynamics equation and think in terms of
>quarks while predicting the chances of snow tomorrow...

Of course, a bricklayer does not need to study atomic physics in order to
build a brick house. Similarly for hydrodynamics which is a macroscopic
description where many degrees of freedoms come into play. The equations of
hydrodynamics are derived from Boltzmann's equation which is an atomistic
equation. Evolutionary theory, if done truly scientifically, will have to
go to the deepest scientific description which is the biochemical.

>> I wonder what a human would become if you are right and there was no
>> spiritual nature to him/her.

>Exactly what he/she is, a very complex, sophisticated, fascinating
>machine. But a machine none the less. Have you ever gone to the dentist,
>Moorad? When you step in there and are subjected to minor "repairs", or
>when you have to go to the hospital for occasional major ones, and then
>when you consider that after you reach the point of non-repair nature
>discards you with a sudden increase in entropy which we call death, do
>you really believe that you are more than a machine, that you are the
>result of the design of a perfect god???

Is Melissa "a very complex, sophisticated, fascinating machine. But a
machine none the less?" Is that how you won her heart :)? The statement
"man is nothing but a machine" has nothing to do with science. That is a
philosophical statement that goes beyond the purview of science.

>> Remember Massimo your real value is that Christ died for you.
>Please, this kind of sunday morning preaching should be avoided in a
>serious discussion.

Just telling you where the glass is in case of a fire and you have to find
it and break it.

>> BTW are you
>> getting married in a church?
>Of course not! Wouldn't that be a flagrant contradiction of all my (and
>Melissa's) principles?

I really wish you and Melissa the best. Hope you have children one day and
know how to raise them. This verse was very important for me and made me
into a Christian: "Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring
them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord." Eph.6:4.

Take care,