Re: >Re: >RE: What does ID mean?

George Murphy (
Wed, 06 May 1998 16:56:40 -0400

Bill Hamilton wrote:
> George Murphy wrote
> ... Is Christ really the fullest
> >>revelation of who God is and of God's relationship with the world?
> >> Indeed, science by itself doesn't tell us about how God acts in
> >>the world. But neither does philosophical theism - which is where most
> >>ideas about God's nature & attributes come from.
> >> I continue to be amazed that so many Christians leave Christ
> >>completely out of the picture in dealing with issues of the relationship
> >>of science and theology. It sometimes seems that he is regarded simply
> >>as an instrument for a "Plan B" of some generic deity to get his
> >>creation out of a jam.
> >
> Moorad wrote
> >
> >When I discuss science, I do not bring my Christian faith into the picture.
> >It is only when we discuss the philosophy of science that my worldview,
> >based on my faith, comes into play. However, I do not claim to know the mind
> >of God and refrain from going into some discussions because they are too
> >speculative. Of course, I will discuss such issue to bring out the latter
> point.
> >
> >Take care,
> >
> In response to George I would say that I believe Jesus Christ is the
> fullest revelation of Who God is and of His relationship with men. Study
> of nature is a discipline I believe we are well-equipped to carry out, but
> the relationship of God to nature is a study we are not well-equipped for,
> nor is it a subject God has told us a great deal about in Scripture. That
> doesn't mean we oughtn't to study the relationship of God to nature -- only
> that we ought to be cautious of drawing conclusions.
> I very much agree with George that some Christians are very prone to seeing
> Jesus Christ as 'an instrument for a "Plan B" of some generic deity to get
> his creation out of a jam'.
> I agree with Moorad that Christian faith seems to be more logically a
> component of philosophy of science than science itself. It seems to me
> that Christian faith may suggest what projects I pursue, and may say some
> things to me about how I go about my research and how I utilize the
> results. But I don't expect it to dictate the content of my conclusions.
> Perhaps something I realized last night would be helpful here. Our small
> group is studying Romans, and something that was said caused me to think
> about just how we put our minds under the lordship of Jesus Christ. It
> came to me that the real problem is putting our will under His lordship.
> Then the mind will be more amenable to function in His service. In the
> twentieth century we put a lot os stress on the mind, and tend to think of
> it as that which directs what we do. It's really important, but our will
> directs what we do. So the challenge of putting one's mind under the
> lordship of Christ is not a challenge of checking our brain at the church
> door, but one of putting our will under his lordship. Then -- I believe --
> the mind will cooperate without being suppressed.

Lest there be any confusion about what I'm saying -
I emphatically agree that we do not need to say or
think anything about Christ, or God, or any religious concepts, in order
to do science, & to do it well. In that sense God's presence in the
world is entirely hidden from scientific study.
But when we speak about God's relationship with the world, we do
know something about God because God has revealed it to us in his
relationship with Israel which culminates in Christ. In the light of
that revelation we can consider what science has discovered about the
world & consider those discoveries as aspects of God's activity in the
world. Thus when explicitly placed in a Christian context, science can
tell us something (certainly not everything!) about divine activity in
the world.
Moorad says that we should not claim to know the mind of God.
Of course a great deal of humility is required here, but Paul does tell
us that "we have the mind of Christ" (I Cor.2:16). That doesn't mean we
know all the workings and contents of the divine mind, but what we know
of Christ does give us some understanding of God's attitude toward the

George L. Murphy