Re: Coal and theYEC position

Bill Payne (
Sun, 12 Apr 1998 22:26:27 -0600

12 Apr 1998 20:51:18 -0500, Glenn Morton wrote:

> I think a day later than this post, I pointed out that the organic matter
> does not necessarily have to have come from trees. Swamp grasses,
> collecting over a long time could also have provided the necessary organics.

But, I understand that thin-sections of coals under the microscope show
tree bark to be the primary constituent of coal. And swamps are
invaribly cut with drainage paths, which would, one would think,
interrupt the 15,000 square mile expanse of the Pittsburg seams in at
least one place.

> Your statement about a "general lack" of tree stumps may be true IN GENERAL
> but there are indeed vertical trunks found in coal.

I don't deny the occassional exception, which, incidentally, can be
explained within the allochthonous (transported) model (as at Mt. St.
Helens). But swamps do *generally* have tree stumps, don't they? How
do you explain the general lack of stumps without pleading swamp
grasses, which, last time I checked, don't have tree bark?

> As noted above, there is some evidence in its favor. But even if we
> suddenly discover that the organics came from marsh grasses, that doesn't
> necessarily prove a global flood.

Fine; let's forget the global-flood extrapolation for the moment.
You've still got the problem of no stumps and tree bark in the coal.

> If these mats were floating on the surface they could circle the globe at a
> drift of merely 3 miles per hour. So why do we find coal piled up in
> certain places? What anchored the mats in these localities.

Doesn't matter. The fact is that they were stable enough to stay in one
general area long enough to drop a layer of organics, which may have
only taken a day or so. The floating mats may have been hemmed in
between the continents and the continual push of waves from the deep

> I don't believe that you can have long distance transport of the organics
> because they would disperse, not stay together.

The floating logs in Spirit Lake, below Mt. St. Helens, tend to move
together in clumps in response to the wind; they do not tend to

> And you believe that the organics can remain together after such a crushing
> catastrophe?

That's what the data tells us. Do you have a problem with the data? :-)

> Why is there no "trail" of deposited organics as the vegetative mat floated
> away especially across today's ocean basins? There is no coal ever found in
> the ocean basins. If vegetative masses were the cause of coals I would
> expect that 70% of the coals would be found there since they occupy 70% of
> the surface area of the earth.

Since there are no coals in the ocean basins, then the obvious inference
is that they didn't cross the oceans. The floating mats probably were
trapped in the shallow seas over the continents.

> It is not world wide. I don't think western Oklahoma or West Texas have coals.

It *is* world wide since all of the continents have coals. I didn't say
that every square inch of each continent was covered at one time with
coal; only the areas with organics trapped in shallow seas.

> I will try to behave myself. :-)

Me too. We're doing really well so far!

Bill Payne