Re: Miracles?

John Neal (
Wed, 18 Mar 1998 02:52:09 -0500

Miracles are works of power. If you think these are special as miracles,
think about the Red Sea. Now, that's a miracle. As far as this:

>> "I think you multiply your problems by saying, well, investigate
>>miracles. If you do, and find a perfectly reasonable natural
>>explanation, then you are up a creek[,]"

if you find a "perfectly reasonable natural explanation" for a miracle, then
it is you who are up a creek. If God shows you a miracle right to your face
and you don't believe it, woe unto you.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Payne <>
To: ASA <>
Date: Tuesday, March 17, 1998 10:33 PM
Subject: Miracles?

>Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:41:39 +0000, William B. Provine wrote:
>> I think you multiply your problems by saying, well, investigate miracles.
>> If you do, and find a perfectly reasonable natural explanation, then you
are up
>> a creek.
>Hi Will,
>One miracle that can be investigated and has never been explained to my
>satisfaction is dowsing. It's my opinion that dowsing is a miracle of
>the world of darkness, but a supernatural effect nonetheless.
>A word of warning: If I am correct about dowsing, then to engage in
>dowsing is, in a sense, like dancing with the devil. The Bible tells us
>that demons can get trememdous power over an individual, and I would
>hate to think that anyone reading this decided to try to obtain
>supernatural power only to find that they did so at the expense of their
>freedom to exercise their free will. Since you don't believe in free
>will, Will, then I guess that won't be a problem for you. :-)
>I could relate several experiences I've had with dowsing, but for the
>sake of brevity, let me just say that I've personally felt a "force"
>move two brass L-rods in my hands one time. I was startled by the
>movement and prayed silently (without moving my lips or doing anything
>that would be outwardly visible): "God, I don't know what's going on,
>but if this isn't from you, please take it away." I walked back and
>forth over the same spot on the ground several times, but there was no
>longer any force moving the rods.
>There's at least one other member of this listserve who said he has also
>"felt the force", but still believes there must be a natural explanation
>although he doesn't know what the explanation would be.
>The Jan/Feb, 1998, issue of "Skeptical Inquirer" had an article on
>dowsing which said the natural explanations would include involuntary
>movements of the hands, respiration, and "correcting for postural
>stability. When such movements are magnified through an external
>instrument, such as a dowsing rod, it can well appear that some
>environmental force is being encountered."
>Because I am naturally particular in attention to detail, and because I
>personally had the experience I described, I can eliminate all of the
>"natural" explanations offered in the article. But I don't expect you
>to take my word for it, Will. Why don't you locate a dowser in your
>area and see for yourself. If you don't know of any dowsers, try
>calling the water-well drillers, or go out into the country and ask the
>old timers about dowsing.
>But do be careful.