Re: Science of God

Glenn Morton (
Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:32:47 -0600

At 09:47 AM 2/13/98 -0500, Bryan Bishop wrote:
>I sent the Moorad and then realized (saw) that other people were interested
>so here it is in brief form. This is just dealing with the first couple of
>chapters, I'll let you know more as I get to them.
>>Dear Moorad,
>>I'll give you a rough outline of the first part now (what I've read so
>for). His basic argument is that the universe was created in about 15
>billion years and 6 days, it all depends on your frame of reference.
>>From us on earth looking back (measuring via red shift etc) it looks like
>the universe has been expanding for 15 billion years.

I missed the first part of this thread. This sounds like Russell Humphrey's
work. Humphreys starts the universe as a black hole with the future earth
at the center of the black hole. Then he has the black hole become a white
hole in which matter crosses the event horizon on an outward journey.
Eventually and at the very end, the event horizon passes across the earth.
At this time the earth watches the universe "age" by billions of years while
it doesn't age very much.

The problem with this view is that at an event horizon time does not go
slowly, it doesn't go at all. Time stops. Delta T is zero. In Humphreys
model, the universe should be infinitely old, not simply 10-20 billion years

Humphreys does not tell his readers, most of whom have never read a General
Relativity (GR)book. I am no expert in GR but I have read several textbooks
on the topic. Humphreys takes advantage of the general ignorance of GR that
his readers will have and since he is a christian, they trust him.

The metric of time g(tt) which measures the rate time flows, is


Where M is the mass of the black hole measured in centimeters (so that it
can be divided by r, the distance from the black hole's center. And yes M
can be measured in centimeters via conversion by the gravitational constant.)

At r=2M g(tt)=0.

Thus when you cross an event horizon, you see the universe above you go
faster and faster, aging more and more quickly. At the event horizon, an
infinite amount of time must pass in the world above. While you may never
know that you have fallen through the event horizon, you really don't get
there until the end of the universe.

If you watch someone fall into the black hole, you see them going slower and
slower until they appear to stop entirely with their grin slowly fading from
view over the rest of the age of the universe.

I find the whole Humphrey's thing sad.

I am sure that there are physicists here who can do a better job of
describing the effect. Please remember that some of my inaccuracy is an
attempt to communicate what the problem is.


Adam, Apes, and Anthropology: Finding the Soul of Fossil Man


Foundation, Fall and Flood