Re: Calcium & Carbon source.

Glenn Morton (
Sun, 08 Feb 1998 17:05:35 -0600

At 03:58 PM 2/8/98, Allen Roy wrote:
>This reply is quite late because my computer crashed and I lost all my
>email files.
>Originally you had said:
>"Each mole of limestone gives off around 270 kilocalories of heat per mole.
>To deposit the 4 x 10^21 moles of carbonate on the earth requires the
>emission of 1.15 x 10^27 calories. The heat generated per square
>centimeter is 1.15 x 10^27 calories/ 5.11x 10^18. There are 5.11 x 10^18
>square centimeters over the continents. Thus each square centimeter of
>earth must get rid of 224,939,698 calories during the time the limestone
>was deposited (1 year). If it is all deposited during the flood, that
>means that each square centimeter must radiate heat at a rate 7 times
>greater than that which we receive from the sun. Everyone would cook."
>This is an extremly confusing statment! By what means are you proposing
>that the "limestone" was deposited within the year out of the Flood? My
>friends and I went the route of precipitation of Calcite from Flood waters
>because that is what your statement seems to indicate. After all,
>precipitation is the normal way calcite is formed as solid limestone
>directly from solution.
>Now that we have shown that the amount of heat released by direct
>precipitation is insignificant, you claim that what you were really
>talking about in the above paragraph is:
>"I have REPEATEDLY state that I was not talking about calcium carbonate
>being precipitated from solution but was referring to the formation of the
>Calcium carbonate molecule from it's components."

No, there is a difference. It is absolutely impossible for the oceans to
have in solution all the carbonate that we see in the fossil record. That
is why I said I wasn't referring to deposition out of solution. One must
have some other explanation for the vast quantity of carbonate. But even
with that fast quantity, the manufacture of a mole of carbonate gives off a
considerable quantity of heat. This heat comes from bringing all the
individual components of CaCO3 together, 270 kcal/mole. The heat given off
by limestone coming out of solution is much less than that because you have
already made the CO3 prior to its dropping out of solution.

And to show you that I was originally talking about the manufacture of
calcium carbonate, the first value for heat given off was 270 kcal/mole
which is not hte heat given off by merely dropping it out of solution.

>First, calcium carbonate is a salt, not a molecule.

OH you really didn't say that did you? Have you never heard the definition
of a molecule?

>Second, my friends want to know what is your source of carbon and calcium
>for the formation of the world's limestone formations.

I have lots of time to play with. The earth is hundreds and thousands of
millions years old. Calcium, carbon and oxygen come up out of the earths
interior during volcanism. These elements eventually combine to form
calcium carbonate and the CO2 is thus removed from the atmosphere.

Now on Fri Jan 30 20:18:37 1998, I wrote a post that showed that you can't
account for the remains of living animals because they are too numerous to
fit into the 1656 years from creation to the flood. You and your friend
have totally ignored the organic portion of the carbonate record. To remind
you here is the post:

Now, J. M. Hunt notes that of the 51,000 x 10^18 g of carbon in limestone,
1,800 x 10^18 g are due directly to living organims, i.e. shells etc. This
portion of the carbonate record could NOT be part of the original creation
unless you believe that God created the fossils in the rocks. What are the
implications for this.

1,800 x 10^18 g of carbon in carbonate is 1.5 x 10^20 moles of carbon in the
carbonate. Since the living creature removes one molecule of CO2 from the
environment when it makes its shell, there must be that many moles of
carbon dioxide removed from the pre-flood world. After all the animals in
the fossil record are the remains of the preflood biosphere.

So, Lets calculate how many atmospheres of carbon dioxide must be removed.

1.5 x 10^20/ 8 x 10^16 (special preflood atmospheres worth of CO2)= 1875
atmospheres worth of CO2 must be removed. This means that in the 1656 years
between creation and the flood, the preflood animals removed the entire
reservoir of CO2 in

1656/1875 = .88 = 10.5 months.

How does this compare with the modern world? Bert Bohlin gives the data
for the carbon cycle (Scientific American, Sept. 1970, p 130) His absolute
numbers are a bit different from mine but according to him it would take 700
years for limestone to remove all the carbon in hte atmosphere. How do you
propose to make the shell fish and coral of the preflood world accumulate
the entire world's CO2
in 10 months?

Why don't you answer this problem for the global flood?


Adam, Apes, and Anthropology: Finding the Soul of Fossil Man


Foundation, Fall and Flood