Moorad wrote:

John W Burgeson (
Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:27:04 -0700

Moorad made four claims, as follows:

1. It is clear from the writings of Paul and the OT
that homosexuality is an abomination to God.....

2. Making issues complex is the sure way to go away
from obedience of God's laws.

3. Abortion is murder.

4. Cloning will never erase the sin nature of man.
On point #1. The issue (to me) is whether (or not) the scriptures
proscribe all homosexual acts. Christians differ on this.

Narrow your focus to one class of actions, those taken solely within the
context of a loving, long-term, monogamist, adult relationship.

I am not interested in discussions of sexual activities taken outside
this context. I think the Scriptures are fairly clear in proscribing

This issue was discussed on the LIST SERV about two years ago.
Interestingly enough, I had several private notes of support for my
position from LIST SERV members who did not wish to "go public" with that

My position? I hold that the issue is in doubt; that a good case can be
made for a position that the Scriptures are silent on the specific class
of activity focussed on above, and that a good case can also be made in

When I began to study this, two or three years ago, it was primarily in
response to the discussions taking place in my church, the PC USA, and my
brother's church, ELCA. I read a number of position papers, on both
sides, and finally settled on two books, one by Helmaniak, one by
Schmidt, which fairly (IMHO) set forth the arguments on either side.
Helmaniak deals only with issues of Scripture; Schmidt also treats other
arguments, which I find irrelevant to the discussion. If God approves, or
at least condones, then other issues are moot. If God disapproves,

To not clutter the LIST SERV, anyone who would like a copy of my notes on
these two books may have them by e-mail by asking. Better still, read the
books. Both of them.

On point #2, I find this unsatisfactory on several counts. At what time
in my education do I call a halt? At five, I believed in Santa. Surely
you would have me go further than that? At ten I believed in a young
earth (hey! I CAN READ, you know!). Would you have me go further than
that? At fifteen I believed in "science." Better not stop there! And so
it goes. "Making issues complex is the sure way to go away
from obedience of God's laws" seems to me to be the worst possible
advice I could give. The issues ARE complex, at least the most
interesting ones. To make them simple is to crawl back on momma's lap.
Can't do that, my friend.

Example. This really happened; I'll put it in personal terms.

You are a soldier in Patton's army in late 1944. Battle of the Bulge. You
have been in England and came over three months after D-Day; you are not

There has been a story in circulation about how 35 American soldiers,
prisoners of war, were machine-gunned by the Germans a week or so ago.
The battle is fierce, and resources are tight. Cold. You are scared
beyond anything you ever dreamed about when you were a lad growing up in
Ohio just a few short years ago.

The order comes down, and is made very clear. "Take no prisoners." The
rationale is obvious, prisoners will slow down the company, and thus put
everyone at risk.

Late that day you are alone in the woods, gunfire around you but not, at
that moment, under attack. A rustle in the bushes behind you. A German
soldier, in full uniform, unarmed, hands high above his head, wants to

What do you do?

Before you say, "shoot," (because those are your direct orders and you
understand fully the reason they were given), one more piece of data:

The German soldier stands about five feet tall. He appears to be a boy of
14 or so.

Same decision?

If you don't shoot, how do you justify yourself to the Captain?

This was a real situation, with no good decision possible.

Justify your answer.

I think I'll have to work on your #3 and #4 later...
This last one was tough.


You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]