Re: The lot is cast ...

Chuck Noren (
Fri, 12 Dec 1997 07:52:26 -0500


Thank you so much in taking time to discuss this with me.
I find this a most enjoyable discussion.

-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Teo <>
>Again, it is only truly free if that desire/motivation is not influenced
>by prior factors. There has to be a clean break somewhere in the causal
>chain for true freedom to exist, and I guess different people will
>locate that at different places. But even if I were to grant that the
>desire is truly indepedent of prior influences, I am still hazy about
>how it fits into a predetermined universe.

Let me pick your brains on this. I wonder if logical necessity does not
provide enough of a break for true freedom to exist. Let me explain.
I think you and I agree that God perfectly knows the future. Accepting
that premise, then we can say at some point in time, T0 in the past,
God knows all the actions I will do throughout my life. If God knows
what my actions are at T0, then by logical necessity I will do those
although we know that God does not completely reveal those
actions. There are even cases where God reveals what someone
will do. One case is where Jesus told Peter that he would betray Him.
In this case, was Peter free? Personally, I think the answer of the question
hinges on the definition of freedom. I side with Jonathan Edwards'
(as mentioned in a previous post) and would say that Peter was free to
do what he wanted to do at that moment. What are your thoughts?

Another question (to anyone): what is the definition of cause, especially
in a non-mechanical quantum universe? Could logical necessity, in the
case cited above, be thought of as a cause?