Re: knowledge/existence

Garry DeWeese (
Fri, 14 Nov 1997 22:03:13 -0700

At 08:29 PM 11/14/1997 -0500, George Murphy wrote:
>Garry DeWeese wrote:
>> >> in what
>> sense
>> >> did the Pythagorean Theorem existed before it was known by man? Or,
>> >> did it exist before it was discovered?
>> >
>> > In the realm of Forms.
>> > Plato
>> > (Forwarded by George Murphy, who adds that the
>> > Forms are freely created by God, & do not share
>> > God's uncreated status.)
>> I assume that George is not being sarcastic here.
> I'm not.
>> And I agree with him. .....................
>> PS A few weeks ago, in a parenthesis, George said something about the
>> entire universe being a mathematical equation in the mind of God. That's
>> probably the wrong way to put it, but I would like George to elaborate.
> What I think I said (or anyway, what I say now) is that the
>universe is an embodiment of a math pattern in the mind of God. While
>this is in the Platonic tradition, I would add:
> a) The pattern is contingent - there are many different
>patterns which _could_ be embodied, & God has chosen this one.
> b) Our laws of physics are approximations to this pattern.
> c) The embodiment of the universe is not simply an inferior
>shadow, but in a sense an improvement upon bare pattern.
> d) The pattern includes dynamics, & thus "becoming" as well as
> e) Goedel's theorem seems to imply that a universe embodying
>such pattern is logically open.
> f) The uncreated Logos includes (but is not limited to) all
>rational patterns for possible universes.
> g) Our knowledge of the Logos is given to us in the Word made
> George Murphy

I agree with a) through d). As for e), I'm not sure Goedel can be
stretched that far, unless the "pattern" of which you speak is an
axiomatizable system. And f) and g) sound too much like Plotinus for me to
swallow easily. Are you identifying the uncreated Logos with the Logos of
John's Gospel?

Garry DeWeese