Re: Fact Free Science and Kinds

Karen G. Jensen (
Sun, 9 Nov 1997 20:00:49 -0600

Fri, 07 Nov 1997 16:39:55 -0500 George Murphy noted:

>David Campbell wrote:
>> George warned
>> > Fine, as long as it really is philosophy informed in a
>> >basic way by Christian presuppositions. What we need to watch out for
>> >is the smuggling of assumptions of common-sense or philosophical theism
>> >which are not based on God's self-revelation.
>> > George Murphy
>> This is a problem in the issue of "what's a kind", currently under "Fall of
>> evolved man". Plato says kinds don't change, the Bible does not say one
>> way or the other, and fossil and biological evidence suggest common
>> descent. Two of the three conflict, but it's not the Bible that is at
>> fault.

Yes. Plato says kinds don't change, fossil and biological evidence show
change, and the Bible describes a creation in which "all that He (God) had
made...was very good", then changes such as thorns and thistles and
predation. Biogeography shows not fixity of species, but common descent of
related species, as organisms have spread into new niches.

> In fact, the picture of God's acts in the Bible is much more in
>accord with creation of the new out of the ruin of the old than it is of
>maintaining a static "great chain of being". Note e.g. the way God
>deals with the Davidic monarchy & Jerusalem Temple: He lets these
>institutions which he has established be destroyed - & still is faithful
>to his promise.

Amen. The Bible speaks of the earth unformed and unfilled (Gen.1:2), then
describes the forming and filling (Gen.1&2), then ruin with a promise of
redemption (Gen.3:15), then greater ruin and recovery (Gen.7-8 on), and a
future complete ruin and restoration (2 Peter 3:10-13), not the static
"great chain of being" (of medieval philosophers) -- and also not progress
along such a "chain" as Ionian philosophers (before Plato) and modern
philosophers describe.

> The real God is the one who "raises the dead & brings into being
>things that do not exist" (Rom.4:17) - not the God who maintains the
>status quo. David is quite right: The latter picture is a prime
>example of replacement of the biblical God by the God of the

The earth has been through a lot, and at present the whole creation
"groans" (Romans 8:18-22). We can be thankful that the status quo is not
to be preserved, with all its misunderstandings. We look forward to new
heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

IMHO, the integrity of kinds is not challenged by these facts.