Reply to Bill Frix:

John W. Burgeson (
Sat, 22 Mar 1997 10:09:27 -0500

Dear Bill Frix:

First of all, I did not know you were a YEC. Based on what I've seen you
post here in the past few months, I have to say you are certainly an
exception to the statement I made, which was too generalized! Most of the
YECers I've seen have been on my Compuserve forum, where they have done
neither their YEC position, nor their Lord, much good.

With much of what you wrote, I am in sympathy. Some places I even agree!

You wrote, in part:

>>I am a YECer. I am a scientist. I am a YECer BECAUSE I am a scientist.
I am actually getting tired of listening to and writing to this listserv
because I am tired of hearing YEC bashing.>>

Please don't go away. I'd love for you (also) to join us over on
Compuserve, if you want!

>> I have attempted to listen to both sides of the arguments and compared
them to what I know from scientific work and my readings. In truth, the
scientific philosophy of the YEC proponents make as much sense and have as
many problems as the philosophy all of you are drumming from your

While I personally cannot agree with this, I am more than ready to listen.
If I'm wrong, I want to know it.

>>Funny, did your God invent philosophy, or did Satan, or did human beings?
God is truth and is reality - philosophy, at least in terms of the courses
I have had in it, is a human undertaking to understand the universe around
them. God, in that sense, didn't invent philosophy. God IS reality; He
created the universe that exists (whether you believe it or not) and,
according to the Scriptures, it will dissolve when He decides it will
(matter cannot be created or destroyed be hanged!). >>

In one sense, you are right. Philosophy, like plumbing, is a human
invention. But God invented us with the capability to do both. I think he
expects us to do both. Else,

"The unexamined life is not worth living"

would be turned into

"The unlived life is not worth examining."

>>Science is philosophy, in a matter of speaking. As someone rightly
pointed out on this listserv, science is _not_ the objective reality of
observations, science is the _philosophical interpretation_ of those
observations. In that regard, one person's philosophy is another's junk.

This seems to turn on word definitions, more than anything else. We
disagree on those definitions.

>> As I have said, I have found gaps in your reasonings, I have found gaps
in the reasonings of the YEC
proponents; I have found sensibilities in some of your statements and in
some of theirs. In my opinion (which to some is biased, to others
objective - objectivity is in the eye of the beholder or, to put it another
way, that which is evil lies in the opinion of the victor), both of your
"science" is balanced by the other camp. Hence, what I believe comes down
to that - faith. And I choose to believe in the Bible.>>

Would it not be fair to rephrase your last sentence as "I choose to believe
in my interpretation of the Bible?" For else you make the implication,
which is not fair, that others, including me, do "not believe in the
Bible." My interpretation of it may, indeed, be wrong; so may yours.

>>Finally, yes, I have a belief that God "diddit". God created the heavens
and the earth. As a scientist, I have a desire to understand how God
"diddit", _if_ He permits me to do so. After all, God tells us in
Deuteronomy 29:29 "The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the
things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever, that we may observe
all the words of this law." (NAS) Why does God reveal anything to us (and
we will NOT _know_ the truth about creation/evolution unless God reveals it
to us since NONE OF US WAS THERE) except that we should glorify Him?>>

No disagreement, my friend.

>>What I have against the theological evolutionists is their pride and
arrogance. The truth is that God may NOT desire for us to understand how
he "diddit" - your attitudes that you can do so, even if God doesn't desire
for you to know how, is arrogance of the highest sort.>>

Funny, I seem to have the same problem understanding my friend (an he IS my
friend) Dr. Gish.

>>Funny, the Bible tells us that God reveals His secrets to those who fear
Him (Ps 25:14) and that He is opposed to the proud. Maybe humility in the
face of the Scriptures is the best way to learn how God "diddit".>>

Don't see that as "funny" at all. I know, you meant it ironically. I do
think that the verse you quoted, however, is more about "knowing God" than
doing science.