Re: 'Baiting' human molecules and who is human?

Glenn Morton (
Sat, 11 Jan 1997 11:20:45

In a private message John Misasi said he was sending a version of this note I
am responding to, to the listserv. I have not received that note via the list
serve but have received a direct reply. I am assuming that this was meant for
the server and will reply accordingly.

> Glenn wrote:
>> >I cannot remain silent while Christians say erroneous scientific
>> >things. Considering that 32+ Christian book publishers rejected my
>> >manuscript and several journals rejected any article based upon these
>> >ideas, how exactly would you suggest that I get my message out except to
>> >attempt to arouse discussion on internet?
>1) It takes a while to get things moving. WHile Ross may be
> wrong at times (or all the time), his books are making the way for ones
> like yours.

I understand that. That is why I have not given up. But I will tell you that

it is really hard sometimes to keep the spirits up. And I doubt that there is
much room for what I am saying. We have witnessed a tremendous rejection of
observational evidence on all sides of this issue. YECs disbelieve anything a

geologist says about geology. People who put the flood in the Mesopotamian
region and land Noah in Turkey have water running uphill. Old-earthers say
that spiritual mankind was made 35,000 years ago (citing evidence of art in sw

France) contrary to the archeological evidence. And lots of old-earthers,
don't really care if the Genesis is historical or not. My atheist ex-boss
told me that he is an atheist precisely because he thinks Genesis and all the
other stories in the Bible are fiction, i.e. not historical.

> 2) if you include Ross in the discussion, you must remember his position
> is that God created each species specially, that there was not
> evolution. He posits that the fossil record shows Gods creation events
> with us seeing the slide show remains. If this is his position, then
> humans (i.e. homo sapien) must be different from all homonids. He would
> be a fool to answer otherwise.
I agree that PC would separate us from the apes. But Ross's view is totally
determined by the need for a 60K or less age for humanity not by the
observational data. A year ago Ross said that art was definitely an indication

of the human spirit.

"In the case of the cave drawings and pottery fragments, the
degree of abstractness suggests the expression of something more
than just intelligence. Certainly no animals species other than
human beings has ever exhibited the capacity for such
sophisticated expression. However, the dates for these finds are
well within the biblically acceptable range for the appearance of
Adam and Eve -- somewhere between 10,000 and 60,000 years ago
according to Bible scolars who have carefully analyzed the
genealogies. Since the oldest art and fabrics date between
25,000 and 30,000 years ago, no contradiction exists between
anthropology and Scripture on this issue." Hugh Ross, "Art and
Fabric Shed New Light on Human History," Facts & Faith, 9:3
(1995)p. 2

Now that he must deal with art older than 60,000 years (Jinmium, Australia,
Neanderthal flutes at 100,000 years), he is changing:

"The conclusion that art expression can only come from the spirit
of man is the one I would debate.""The Meaning of Music and Art",
Facts & Faith, 10:4, 4th qtr. 1996, p. 6

>Also, when joe average hears human being, they are thinking of homo
> Whdden joe average hears neanderthol they think a primitive cave man.
> Therdefore, they must seperate the two by some fashion and this is who
> Hugh s ministering to, oe and jayne avg. And i think you can see how if
>human = h.sapien AND cave man = neandertal AND h.sapien != cave man
> that one could say
>human != neanderthal (!= means doesn't equal)
> Wheteher or not it is true, is up for genetic debate. Speaking of
> genetics, i would like to know what journal to look in for that
> archeologial dig myself. Let me know if you find the references. And
> how much in tact DNA they can actually get from a bone.

I agree, but Joe Average's view should not determine what Christian apologists

As to DNA from a bone, I have heard rumors that they are attempting to get
mitochondrial DNA from a Neanderthal bone. I would not put success out of the
realm of possibility!

I am searching for the authors of the Albumin article. Apparently the papers
were presented at a conference in Spain so it may be a year before the
proceedings are published. If I find these articles, I WILL let you know.
Remind me every now and then so I don't forget who it is that wants those

try as a start:

Adrienne L. Zihlman and Jerold M. Lowenstein, "A Spanish
Olduvai?" Current Anthropology, 37:4(Aug.-Oct. 1996), p. 695-697, p. 847

> 3) while i don't disagree with your additions, you can find some of these
> ideas, lang, art, murder, & meat eating have been shown in
> primates. (you could even say prositution is present in bonobo monkeys in
> which male monkeys trade females food for sex). I would ask whether the
> Bible says that these things make humans human. I think it is more
> likely to be that God breathed life into us, giving us a soul, a likeness
> to him, and a blessing as caretakers for His creation. Maybe this is a
> good topic for the thread.
> What makes man Biblically different from other animals of the creation of
> God?
> i am sleepy so i will go to sleep now. I hope i have been polite myself,
> if not, i ask your forgiveness.

You have been fine. I would prefer someone be absolutely direct rather than
beat around the bushes.


Foundation,Fall and Flood