Re: Re[2]: Fw: Underlying assumptions

Murphy (
Thu, 12 Dec 1996 07:15:51 -0500

Gladwin Joseph wrote:
> The evidence that Glen Morton and others have alluded to on this list that
> the religious impulse in the human species is very ancient supports Paul's
> contention that the unrightous recognize the evidence and with deliberation
> twist the evidence to mean worship of the created thing instead of the creator.

{Responses here both to Joseph & Miller}.
Yes, the unrighteous twist the evidence. But why? Because they
don't approach it in faith in the true God - which is why they're
If the religions people create are indications of some deep
sense of the need for God, they are at the same time signs of human

> How many of us humans have come to know the GOD of
> Abraham Isaac and Jacob through natural revelation? I think
> none. All of us have had some form of
> supernatural intervention in time (the span of such
> intervention is not relevent here), either being born into
> christian families or have been close to christian
> influence, and have heard God's revelation through a
> material medium (that is essential as long as we are
> humans-i.e.,body-spirit unities). Therefore, to interpret
> Paul's contention to mean that God can be known through
> nature but that people twist the evidence makes it rather
> unfair to these people and indirectly implies an "unjust
> god". I am not sure how you unravel Paul's words on the
> rationale for universal disbelief. I am curious to know how
> one resolves this conundrum.

&, I woul;d again note - no one in the biblical story comes to
believe in the true God, the one who brought Israel out of Egypt &
raised Jesus, from observation of the world & reason.

> I am curious about another question. Do those who hold to
> the Functional integrity model hold to an Universe that is
> eternal? Or did God intervene in Creating creation and
> therefore the universe has a beginning?
I don't think the universe is eternal. I believe that we should
, as far as possible, attempt to understand God's origination of the
universe through natural processes which are God's creations - which I
admit sounds strange: I gave an article in _Perspectives_ some years
ago the title _The Paradox of Mediated Creation ex nihilo_. God makes
things able to make themselves!
There are limits to the extent to which this is possible. I do
not think that science can explain why the processes of our universe and
the laws which describe them, and not others, are in fact operative.

George Murphy