# RE: Year of Destiny?!

Vandergraaf, Chuck (vandergraaft@aecl.ca)
Mon, 6 Sep 1999 22:26:07 -0400

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Vernon,

Your comment to Pim van Meurs prompted me to have another look at your
initial e-mail on this subject. I had only looked at the first *.htm
attachment and quickly glanced at the *.gif files. I thought I'd better
look at all of them before I put my foot in my mouth.

I've now looked at the attachments a bit more closely. Your math is OK: the
number 5760 is divisible by 10. Ten blocks can be put into a pyramid, as
you've shown so, by itself, this makes the number 5760 not unusual.
Dividing 5760 by 10, we get 576. The square root of 576 is 24, so each of
your ten squares in your pyramid has a side of 24 units. Putting the four
blocks on the bottom "cheek to jowl," we get 4 x 24 = 96 units on the base
and, because the pyramid is 4 units high, also 96 units tall.

Now comes a bit of stretch: where does the checkerboard fit in? Sure, it
has 64 squares and 8 x 12 = 96 but does that make a checkers somewhat of a
divine nature?

Because 5760 is divisible by 10 and can therefore be arranged in a pyramid
with a base of four units and a height of four units, wouldn't any pyramid
of ten units in a rectangle give the 3:5 ratio between your "brown and blue"
areas? Let each square unit have a value of unity. There will be 10 units
in a pyramid. The total area of the square in which the pyramid is placed
is 4 x 4 = 16 units. The area not covered by the pyramid is 16 - 10 = 6
units and the ratio is, guess, 6:10 or 3:5!

As for the "characteristic values of the Greek forms (nominative case) of
'Jesus' and 'Christ' (ie 888 and 1480, respectively)," this reminds me a
recent post where somebody had concluded that Bill Gates would be the
Antichrist because the sum of the numerical values of the letters in his
name equaled 666 (even that took some fiddling, if I recall). There is a
highway in New Mexico that is numbered 666 (it runs North from Gallup, NM,
into Colorado). I am not aware of the Antichrist living anywhere in
Northwest New Mexico or that that area is particularly noted for nasty
things. But I digress.

In conclusion, other than 5760 being an interesting number, I doubt if we
should attach much significance to it.

Chuck Vandergraaf
Pinawa, MB

> ----------
> From: Vernon Jenkins[SMTP:vernon.jenkins@virgin.net]
> Sent: Monday, September 06, 1999 6:22 PM
> To: Pim van Meurs
> Cc: asa@calvin.edu; evolution@calvin.edu
> Subject: Re: Year of Destiny?!
>
> Pim,
>
> Before responding to your question, I would like to be assured that you
> have closely examined the material in question. Clearly, we can't
> discuss these matters in a vacuum!
>
> Vernon
>
> Pim van Meurs wrote:
> >
> > To Vernon
> >
> > What rules out 1) coincidence 2) the original writers or translators
> You'll have to show that neither applies.
> >
> > ----------
> > From: Vandergraaf, Chuck[SMTP:vandergraaft@aecl.ca]
> > Sent: Monday, September 06, 1999 1:01 PM
> > To: 'vernon.jenkins@virgin.net'
> > Cc: evolution@calvin.edu; asa@calvin.edu
> > Subject: RE: Year of Destiny?!
> >
> > Vernon,
> >
> > Thank you for gently pointing out my error in my comment about the "leap
> > month." However, I am still not convinced of the significance of the
> > numbers 5760 and 2000.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> > > ----------
> > > From: Vernon Jenkins[SMTP:vernon.jenkins@virgin.net]
> > > Reply To: vernon.jenkins@virgin.net
> > > Sent: Saturday, September 04, 1999 4:17 PM
> > > To: evolution@calvin.edu; asa@calvin.edu
> > > Subject: Re: Year of Destiny?!
> > >
> > > Friends,
> > >
> > > By way of a general response to comments concerning my recent posting,
> > > let me say:
> > >
> > > (1) It is not possible to assess the significance of the impending
> > > conjunction of the numbers 5760 and 2000 in isolation. The matter must
> > > set in the broader context of the world situation and information
> > > reported earlier concerning certain key words and passages in the
> > > original Hebrew and Greek of the biblical text. [Readers with no
> > > knowledge of this background material are invited to refer to the URLs
> > > below.]
> > >
> > > (2) By labelling the derivation of such information 'numerology' many
> > > appear to be missing the point. Neither Christian nor Jew should find
> it
> > > too hard to believe that God - to further His eternal purposes -
> could,
> > > or would, act in this way in writings they believe to have been
> inspired
> > > by Him. For those who deny the supernatural, the phenomena in question
> > > have to be attributable to chance or human conspiracy - contentions
> > > which are readily rebutted! [Is it any wonder that these would want
> the
> > > matter consigned to oblivion?!] Those (of either category) unwilling
> or
> > > afraid to examine the evidence clearly can have nothing worthwhile to
> > > contribute to the current discussion!
> > >
> > > (3) The point that is being missed by so many people is that the
> > > empirical data referred to rest on the soundest of foundations, viz
> > > mathematics per se, ie the understanding that certain numbers, in
> > > themselves, possess interesting or unique properties, but which are
> also
> > > meaningful in respect of biblical text and symbolism.
> > >
> > > Let me close by addressing remarks to particular individuals:
> > >
> > > To Glenn: The numerical phenomena residing in the Hebrew of Genesis
> 1:1
> > > and the Greek of the Lord's Name can hardly be erased! They are living
> > > testimony to the being and sovereignty of our God, and to the fact
> that
> > > he holds the whole of history in his hands!
> > >
> > > To Chuck: The basis of the Jewish calendar is the lunar month; to
> > > achieve sync with the solar year it is necessary to insert an extra
> > > month from time to time. See http://www.jewfaq.org/calendar.htm for
> > > further details.
> > >
> > > To Susan: I have the impression that you are one who declines to view
> > > the evidence referred to above. Why not do that and provide an
> > > explanation in naturalistic terms?
> > >
> > > To Darren: In my book, anything that impinges on the matter of origins
> > > can be thrown into the ring in these lists. Some Jews really believe
> the
> > > age of the earth to be 5760 years!
> > >
> > > To Gordon: I think we have to accept things as they are now. You
> clearly
> > > acknowledge that God is freely able to achieve his purposes - whether
> or
> > > not these include human error!
> > >
> > > Vernon
> > >
> > > http://homepage.virgin.net/vernon.jenkins/index.htm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > <<File: ATT00000.html>>
>

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RE: Year of Destiny?!

Vernon,

Your comment to Pim = van Meurs prompted me to have another look at your initial e-mail on = this subject.  I had only looked at the first *.htm attachment and = quickly glanced at the *.gif files.  I thought I'd better look at = all of them before I put my foot in my mouth.

I've now looked at = the attachments a bit more closely.  Your math is OK: the number = 5760 is divisible by 10.  Ten blocks can be put into a pyramid, as = you've shown so, by itself, this makes the number 5760 not = unusual.  Dividing 5760 by 10, we get 576.  The square root = of 576 is 24, so each of your ten squares in your pyramid has a side of = 24 units. Putting the four blocks on the bottom "cheek to = jowl," we get 4 x 24 =3D 96 units on the base and, because the = pyramid is 4 units high, also 96 units tall.

Now comes a bit of = stretch: where does the checkerboard fit in?  Sure, it has 64 = squares and 8 x 12 =3D 96 but does that make a checkers somewhat of a = divine nature?

Because 5760 is = divisible by 10 and can therefore be arranged in a pyramid with a base = of four units and a height of four units, wouldn't any pyramid of ten = units in a rectangle give the 3:5 ratio between your "brown and = blue" areas?  Let each square unit have a value of = unity.  There will be 10 units in a pyramid.  The total area = of the square in which the pyramid is placed is 4 x 4 =3D 16 = units.  The area not covered by the pyramid is 16 - 10 =3D  6 = units and the ratio is, guess, 6:10 or 3:5!

As for the "characteristic = values of the Greek forms (nominative case) of 'Jesus' and 'Christ' (ie = 888 and 1480, respectively)," this reminds me a recent post where = somebody had concluded that Bill Gates would be the Antichrist because = the sum of the numerical values of the letters in his name equaled 666 = (even that took some fiddling, if I recall).  There is a highway = in New Mexico that is numbered 666 (it runs North from Gallup, NM, into = Colorado).  I am not aware of the Antichrist living anywhere in = Northwest New Mexico or that that area is particularly noted for nasty = things.  But I digress.

In conclusion, other = than 5760 being an interesting number, I doubt if  we should = attach much significance to it.

Chuck = Vandergraaf
Pinawa, = MB     =20

=20

----------
From:   = Vernon = Jenkins[SMTP:vernon.jenkins@virgin.net]
Sent:   = Monday, September 06, 1999 6:22 = PM
To: =     Pim van = Meurs
Cc: =     asa@calvin.edu; evolution@calvin.edu
Subject:  &= nbsp;     Re: = Year of Destiny?!

Pim,

Before responding to your question, I = would like to be assured that you
have closely examined the material in = question. Clearly, we can't
discuss these matters in a = vacuum!

Vernon

Pim van Meurs wrote:
>
> To Vernon
>
> What rules out 1) coincidence 2) = the original writers or translators adding 'numerology'?
You'll have to show that neither = applies.
>
> ----------
> From:   Vandergraaf, = Chuck[SMTP:vandergraaft@aecl.ca]
> Sent:   Monday, = September 06, 1999 1:01 PM
> To:     = 'vernon.jenkins@virgin.net'
> Cc:     = evolution@calvin.edu; asa@calvin.edu
> = Subject:        RE: Year of = Destiny?!
>
> Vernon,
>
> Thank you for gently pointing = out my error in my comment about the "leap
> month."  However, I am = still not convinced of the significance of the
> numbers 5760 and 2000.
>
> Chuck
>
> > ----------
> > = From:         Vernon = Jenkins[SMTP:vernon.jenkins@virgin.net]
> > Reply = To:     vernon.jenkins@virgin.net
> > = Sent:         Saturday, = September 04, 1999 4:17 PM
> > To:   = evolution@calvin.edu; asa@calvin.edu
> > = Subject:      Re: Year of Destiny?!
> >
> > Friends,
> >
> > By way of a general = response to comments concerning my recent posting,
> > let me say:
> >
> > (1) It is not possible to = assess the significance of the impending
> > conjunction of the numbers = 5760 and 2000 in isolation. The matter must
> > set in the broader context = of the world situation and information
> > reported earlier concerning = certain key words and passages in the
> > original Hebrew and Greek = of the biblical text. [Readers with no
> > knowledge of this = background material are invited to refer to the URLs
> > below.]
> >
> > (2) By labelling the = derivation of such information 'numerology' many
> > appear to be missing the = point. Neither Christian nor Jew should find it
> > too hard to believe that = God - to further His eternal purposes - could,
> > or would, act in this way = in writings they believe to have been inspired
> > by Him. For those who deny = the supernatural, the phenomena in question
> > have to be attributable to = chance or human conspiracy - contentions
> > which are readily rebutted! = [Is it any wonder that these would want the
> > matter consigned to = oblivion?!] Those (of either category) unwilling or
> > afraid to examine the = evidence clearly can have nothing worthwhile to
> > contribute to the current = discussion!
> >
> > (3) The point that is being = missed by so many people is that the
> > empirical data referred to = rest on the soundest of foundations, viz
> > mathematics per se, ie the = understanding that certain numbers, in
> > themselves, possess = interesting or unique properties, but which are also
> > meaningful in respect = of  biblical text and symbolism.
> >
> > Let me close by addressing = remarks to particular individuals:
> >
> > To Glenn: The numerical = phenomena residing in the Hebrew of Genesis 1:1
> > and the Greek of the Lord's = Name can hardly be erased! They are living
> > testimony to the being and = sovereignty of our God, and to the fact that
> > he holds the whole of = history in his hands!
> >
> > To Chuck: The basis of the = Jewish calendar is the lunar month; to
> > achieve sync with the solar = year it is necessary to insert an extra
> > month from time to time. = See http://www.jewfaq.org/calendar.htm for
> > further details.
> >
> > To Susan: I have the = impression that you are one who declines to view
> > the evidence referred to = above. Why not do that and provide an
> > explanation in naturalistic = terms?
> >
> > To Darren: In my book, = anything that impinges on the matter of origins
> > can be thrown into the ring = in these lists. Some Jews really believe the
> > age of the earth to be 5760 = years!
> >
> > To Gordon: I think we have = to accept things as they are now. You clearly
> > acknowledge that God is = freely able to achieve his purposes - whether or
> > not these include human = error!
> >
> > Vernon
> >
> > http://homepage.virgin.net/vernon.jenkins/index.htm
> >
> >